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Old 08-15-2018, 03:38 PM   #1
hal
 
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Default Ultra-Tech AI rules

As I take a closer look at the book and seach through it for rules relating to artificial intelligence, I keep running into game rules that have me scratching my head and saying “huh?!!!”

Page 25, under volitional AI lists legality class values based upon IQ. If an AI’s IQ can’t be regulated by the complexity of the machine it resides within, and if an AI refuses to honestly take an IQ test, how can anyone determine the legality of any given AI? The only way that rule makes sense is if the IQ is complexity based instead of racial IQ based.

Anyone want to take a stab at answering this?

Anyone else finding any of the AI rules don’t make sense?
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:24 PM   #2
jeff_wilson
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Default Re: Ultra-Tech AI rules

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
Page 25, under volitional AI lists legality class values based upon IQ. If an AI’s IQ can’t be regulated by the complexity of the machine it resides within, and if an AI refuses to honestly take an IQ test, how can anyone determine the legality of any given AI?
The machine is given an inspection by a qualified and equipped technician who records the result and affixes the corresponding warning sticker.
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Old 08-15-2018, 09:27 PM   #3
hal
 
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Default Re: Ultra-Tech AI rules

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Originally Posted by jeff_wilson View Post
The machine is given an inspection by a qualified and equipped technician who records the result and affixes the corresponding warning sticker.
OK, this is where it gets sticky...

How does the Technician test for IQ? Any Artificial Intelligence may answer questions honestly, and thus get an accurate read of its AI Intelligence value. But if it refuses to answer the questions, or deliberately answers them incorrectly in an attempt to score lower, how is anyone able to determine the IQ value of the AI in question?

Which brings me to the next point.

If these AIs have essentially "unlimited" potential much as a person has unlimited potential - what determines what its IQ will eventually end up as? If it is a character, the answer is "What ever the player is willing to invest in the way of character points". However, if it isn't a PC, it is an NPC. So, for instance, the program starts off as an IQ 8 AI, and it uses the same exact machine to run on, at IQ 8, as it will eventually utilize as an IQ 20 machine. At some point in time, either the owner of the AI will be locked up for breaking the law, or the AI itself, will be deemed illegal, and however the law specifies should happen to an illegal AI, will be required to be done according to the law.

POSSESSION of an illegal AI would seem to be the more rational approach - largely because in GURPS, the LC usually only applies to things that they can purchase. Breaking the law - always a possibility, necessitates that the PCs do what it takes to not get caught, or suffer the consequences.

So, I reiterate...

if the computer's IQ can't be ascertained based on its complexity limited IQ taboo trait, and the AI can refuse to submit to the test, then what?

And, if you really want to get into the nitty gritty? *evil grin*

Biological characters do not have to worry about being illegal on the basis of their IQ. Why do the p;layer character AIs have to worry about that? To put a proper spin on this - the whole thing does not compute.

Looking at the numbers as well as the LC issues involved per GURPS, we get the following:

LC4 if IQ 6-8 (meaning that there is no issues involved at all)
LC3 if IQ 9-14 (Meaning that the AI has to be licensed)
LC2 if IQ 15-19 (Meaning that this is restricted, on the same order as military weapons)
LC1 if IQ 20+ (meaning Military Grade, restricted like heavy weapons)

Think about that for a second. Those rules imply that there are laws pertaining to AIs to the extent that IQs between 8 to 14 are largely acceptable (save for the fact that in relation to a human being, only the DUMB ones are allowed to exist unregistered).

Why do I get the feeling that the rules as written is trying to do two mutually incompatible things at the same time? On one hand, as an NPC "thing" that can be owned, they are regulated (by law) and treated as seriously as handguns might be, military grade rifles might be, or even military weapons might be. But no player character ever has to take that kind of an issue unless they are second class citizens who can be owned.

As I vet the book more thoroughly, with an eye towards actively BUILDING an NPC via the rules in GURPS ULTRA-TECH, I'm running into things that make me wonder "What where they thinking!"

So, back to you - HOW does one test an AI that is volitional that also deliberately avoids answering any questions that might give its IQ away and potentially make its own existence even harder?

What does the government usually do when it classifies something as LC 2 and finds anyone in violation of said possession laws?
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ultra-Tech AI rules

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
Looking at the numbers as well as the LC issues involved per GURPS, we get the following:

LC4 if IQ 6-8 (meaning that there is no issues involved at all)
LC3 if IQ 9-14 (Meaning that the AI has to be licensed)
LC2 if IQ 15-19 (Meaning that this is restricted, on the same order as military weapons)
LC1 if IQ 20+ (meaning Military Grade, restricted like heavy weapons)

Think about that for a second. Those rules imply that there are laws pertaining to AIs to the extent that IQs between 8 to 14 are largely acceptable (save for the fact that in relation to a human being, only the DUMB ones are allowed to exist unregistered).
Well, at IQ 6-8, an AI can reasonably be considered a very smart tool. At IQ 9 and up, they are undeniably beings (whether they are "people" is a philosophical question). We don't allow humans to exist without being registered - either in the form of birth certificates or immigration documents.

Now, if AIs have rights equivalent or similar to a human, it's very likely the LC is mostly based on the regulations involved in creating AIs rather than possession, as a person can't really be charged with possessing itself.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ultra-Tech AI rules

Buying up your intelligence is a pretty rare thing. Assuming every AI starts at a baseline intelligence most would stay there and it would take a very long time for most of the exceptions to get more than, say one or two IQ points higher, if you allow that. Functionally it would probably be limited to PCs, Ally AIs and their opposition counterparts. The law would probably be about the base IQ, which would be close enough for most purposes.

As for the issue of legality classes, well they're only relevant in situations where AIs are property of course, so the PC Ais should have social stigma.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ultra-Tech AI rules

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Well, at IQ 6-8, an AI can reasonably be considered a very smart tool. At IQ 9 and up, they are undeniably beings (whether they are "people" is a philosophical question). We don't allow humans to exist without being registered - either in the form of birth certificates or immigration documents.

Now, if AIs have rights equivalent or similar to a human, it's very likely the LC is mostly based on the regulations involved in creating AIs rather than possession, as a person can't really be charged with possessing itself.
Remember, we're not talking about a non-volitional AI, but a Volitional one. IQ 6 to 8, while low for a human, and deemed "Not worth of adventure" if you read the GURPS TEMPLATE TOOLKIT 1: CHARACTERS - they are still none the less "free willed".

Which brings us to the next issue...

IQ 5 qualifies as a baby, IQ 6 qualifies as a young child per GURPS rules on children.

As for registering humans, I see your point there, and it is a valid one to be sure. In any society, documenting one's identity is important. In high tech society, it becomes even more important. So registering an AI could make sense under those circumstances - well said.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ultra-Tech AI rules

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Buying up your intelligence is a pretty rare thing. Assuming every AI starts at a baseline intelligence most would stay there and it would take a very long time for most of the exceptions to get more than, say one or two IQ points higher, if you allow that. Functionally it would probably be limited to PCs, Ally AIs and their opposition counterparts. The law would probably be about the base IQ, which would be close enough for most purposes.

As for the issue of legality classes, well they're only relevant in situations where AIs are property of course, so the PC Ais should have social stigma.
As property, if they are characters, then yes, they'd have to take certain disadvantages that would be relevant to the situation at hand. I'd sure hate to own a volitional artificial intelligence if - while owned by me, I'm responsible for any damages up to and including accidental manslaughter. I wonder if the point of registering a volitional AI isn't about treating it as a legal issue per se, but identifying potential hazards that due to the nature of the software/hardware configurations, it is no longer predictable.

Riding stables all but disappeared in Western New York because, despite signing waivers to the effect that horses can be unpredictable, the rider accepts liability and responsibility for riding a horse at all. Toss in sufficient lawsuits despite the waiver, and the stables went out of business (the lawsuit itself killed them off, not the judgment awarded per se).

So, it is a simple issue of making a case for reality does require registration of potential hazards and makes the owner liable for the actions of the entity in question.

*evil grin*

I an just see my next cyberpunk game raising THAT issue.... Hmmm. Glad the player doesn't read the forums. ;)
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: Ultra-Tech AI rules

I think by default the vast majority of AI have IQ corresponding to the complexity of their underlying hardware. I suspect that there will be many more AI's than types of AI, and a given set of software will be fairly well understood. So a very cursory check can tell you what the AI is capable of.
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Old 08-16-2018, 10:44 AM   #9
hal
 
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Default Re: Ultra-Tech AI rules

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
I think by default the vast majority of AI have IQ corresponding to the complexity of their underlying hardware. I suspect that there will be many more AI's than types of AI, and a given set of software will be fairly well understood. So a very cursory check can tell you what the AI is capable of.
Per the new revisions to the book (ie errata) there is no possibility for limitations of the underlying hardware. :(

Either the AI will start with an IQ of 6, and have to work its way up, or it can start a what ever the GM says it starts at. Why? The complexity of the software that is the AI, will be at the same complexity regardless of the actual IQ of the AI. To wit: IQ 10/2 + 3 = 8. Regardless of the TL, regardless of the machine, as long as it can run a complexity 8 piece of software, it can have an AI with an IQ as low as 6, or as high as infinity (assumption being made, that an AI on hardware can in theory, "Live" forever).

While capping any stat at 20 seems to have been bandied about - there doesn't seem to be any specific rule stating it as such. On the flip side, if default skills are based on a cap of 20, the question now becomes one of "What purpose might one see a stat go beyond 20 for an AI". If an AI's will is the same as its IQ stat, then having harsh penalties beyond the norm would be alleviated by a super high Will stat. While the rules don't go into it, would an AI's perception be based off of its IQ? If its cameras, microphones etc, are all cheap quality - it wouldn't seemingly make sense to tie in Perception with IQ, but then again, the rules don't say yea or nay that I've found thus far.

In the end, when I look at the rules as given, I'm going through them as if I were in playtest mode to see what does or doesn't make sense due to the changes instituted.

The ONLY issue that I can see thus far, is that the Taboo trait "Complexity limited IQ" becomes an issue when dealing with AIs in general. Kromm's dislike of that Taboo trait (zero cost disadvantage) ruins a player's ability to improve the IQ of his Robotic/AI character through standard means. On the other hand, one could install the "software" on a higher than normal complexity computer (ie complexity 10 computer with an AI IQ of 10, and then watch it grow to as high as 14 before hitting the so called taboo trait limit).

In the end, my goal is to create an actual player character robot AI (such as DATA from STAR TREK) and see where the rules either work well together, or cause problems. This is largely due to the fact that the errata was introduced that changed the original wording from IQ to Racial IQ as to the complexity of the software involved.
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ultra-Tech AI rules

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Per the new revisions to the book (ie errata) there is no possibility for limitations of the underlying hardware. :(

Which pages is the errata on?
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