wait and counterattack

fifiste · 04-17-2013, 06:30 AM

Counterattack says you can do it on your turn following a parry.
Can you declare a wait .. I'll wait parry+counterattack.
I see this that you trade an otherwise free attack before your parry, for an attack immidiately right now but with and added -2 to parry for your opponent.

Blood Legend · 04-17-2013, 06:41 AM

Sure.

If I'm not mistaken, you could even use an all-out defense before the counter attack to improve your odds.

fifiste · 04-17-2013, 06:47 AM

The round follwong the parry will then not benefit from the counterattack I presume? Would be a bit munchkiny otherwise?
What about multiple attacks will they all benefit from counterattack?

Captain Joy · 04-17-2013, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Legend

Sure.

If I'm not mistaken, you could even use an all-out defense before the counter attack to improve your odds.

If I'm not mistaken, the OP is asking if the Counterattack can be on the same turn as his Wait and Parry. E.g.

Alpha Turn 1: I take a Wait maneuver. I will Parry if attacked and then immediately Counterattack my foe.
Beta Turn 1: I attack Alpha. [Alpha successfully Parries. Alpha then Counterattacks Beta.]
Alpha Turn 2: I attack Beta.

fifiste · 04-17-2013, 06:56 AM

Exactly! I can see it going both ways.

Mathulhu · 04-17-2013, 07:03 AM

Does wait not shift the position of your action in turn order?

Captain Joy · 04-17-2013, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathulhu

Does wait not shift the position of your action in turn order?

No, a Wait simply delays your action until(if) it is triggered later during your turn.

This does mean that if used cleverly, you can get two consecutive attacks on the same foe without letting them attack you inbetween. E.g.

Alpha Turn 1: I take a Wait Maneuver. I'm going to wait to attack Beta until after he attacks me.
Beta Turn 1: I attack Alpha. [Beta attacks Alpha--which is resolved. As this was the trigger for Alpha's Wait, Alpha now attacks Beta--which is resolved.]
Alpha Turn 2: I attack Beta.

DouglasCole · 04-17-2013, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

No, a Wait simply delays your action until(if) it is triggered later during your turn.

This does mean that if used cleverly, you can get two consecutive attacks on the same foe without letting them attack you inbetween. E.g.

Alpha Turn 1: I take a Wait Maneuver. I'm going to wait to attack Beta until after he attacks me.
Beta Turn 1: I attack Alpha. [Beta attacks Alpha--which is resolved. As this was the trigger for Alpha's Wait, Alpha now attacks Beta--which is resolved.]
Alpha Turn 2: I attack Beta.

This seems perhaps rules-legal but as a GM I'm not sure I'd allow it. It seems to stretch my brain a bit too much to allow the attack to follow the parry, followed immediately by another attack. Then again, all of this is fluid, so perhaps it's OK. I will admit to being a touch more comfy with the standard:

A Waits
B attacks A, triggering A's wait
A pre-empts B, and attacks B
B's attack on A is resolved
A gets his regular turn

But you're giving your foe a shot at you, so maybe it works.

fifiste · 04-17-2013, 07:57 AM

Thats my reasoning also. It seems funky but I think the giving a someone an opportunity to take a shot at you might very well balance it out.

Also hadn't thought about it much but as someone said here that it all should actually be much more fluid and simultaineous than the turn by turn nature of the game make it seem. So it should make all kinds of "weird" looking actions make look more normal when you think that all those turns might actually more or less overlap etc.

Rune · 04-17-2013, 08:06 AM

First off I am building my response on
a) limited training
b) kung fu movies
- so you decide how credible my answer is

And to answer your question, I'd say that IMO taking a wait for a parry -> counter-attack is not only possible, but perhaps even one of the most applied uses of real life maneuvers.
As I see it combatants are often very reluctant to be the one making the first attack because they know that the opponent is prepared, and an attack will put you off guard - and open for a counter-attack.

And when we train with swords one of the main things that is taught is exactly to make a quick parry, turn the blade and attack now that the defenses are down.

So basically you are Waiting, then Parrying and Counter-attacking.
So as I said, at least in in one-on-one fights, I'd call that particular maneuver the most commonly used, simply because it is a winner.

04-17-2013, 06:30 AM	#1
fifiste Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Estonia	wait and counterattack Counterattack says you can do it on your turn following a parry. Can you declare a wait .. I'll wait parry+counterattack. I see this that you trade an otherwise free attack before your parry, for an attack immidiately right now but with and added -2 to parry for your opponent.

04-17-2013, 06:41 AM	#2
Blood Legend Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Fine Line Between Black and White	Re: wait and counterattack Sure. If I'm not mistaken, you could even use an all-out defense before the counter attack to improve your odds. __________________ . ( )( ) -This is The Overlord Bunny o(O.o)o -Master of Bunnies O('')('') -And Destroyer of the Hasenpfeffer "This is the sort of relatively small error that destroys planetary probes." ~Bruno

04-17-2013, 06:47 AM	#3
fifiste Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Estonia	Re: wait and counterattack The round follwong the parry will then not benefit from the counterattack I presume? Would be a bit munchkiny otherwise? What about multiple attacks will they all benefit from counterattack?

04-17-2013, 06:56 AM	#5
fifiste Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Estonia	Re: wait and counterattack Exactly! I can see it going both ways.

04-17-2013, 07:03 AM	#6
Mathulhu Join Date: May 2009	Re: wait and counterattack Does wait not shift the position of your action in turn order? __________________ Maxwell Kensington "Snotkins" Von Smacksalot III

04-17-2013, 07:57 AM	#9
fifiste Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Estonia	Re: wait and counterattack Thats my reasoning also. It seems funky but I think the giving a someone an opportunity to take a shot at you might very well balance it out. Also hadn't thought about it much but as someone said here that it all should actually be much more fluid and simultaineous than the turn by turn nature of the game make it seem. So it should make all kinds of "weird" looking actions make look more normal when you think that all those turns might actually more or less overlap etc.

04-17-2013, 08:06 AM	#10
Rune Join Date: Jul 2006	Re: wait and counterattack First off I am building my response on a) limited training b) kung fu movies - so you decide how credible my answer is And to answer your question, I'd say that IMO taking a wait for a parry -> counter-attack is not only possible, but perhaps even one of the most applied uses of real life maneuvers. As I see it combatants are often very reluctant to be the one making the first attack because they know that the opponent is prepared, and an attack will put you off guard - and open for a counter-attack. And when we train with swords one of the main things that is taught is exactly to make a quick parry, turn the blade and attack now that the defenses are down. So basically you are Waiting, then Parrying and Counter-attacking. So as I said, at least in in one-on-one fights, I'd call that particular maneuver the most commonly used, simply because it is a winner.