wait and counterattack

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Don't defenses refresh at the start of your turn?

Yeah, but so what? It's not like "A" couldn't attack "B" a whole bunch of times anyone without using Wait.

And it's not like A's Wait is "I wait until after B is done and double up on him" - a defense-based trigger is really specific. For Counterattack it needs Parry, so it's useless if B steps back and attacks you with a missile weapon, or does a Slam that you can't parry because of his ST (see B376), or hits you with something you can't risk trying to parry (say a flail).

And it's not like B shouldn't expect to have to, sometimes, defend a whole lot at once. It's how a lot of people get killed in the mass melees in my games - a few people suddenly gang up on one guy in a confused melee and he dies.

So if the argument for "defense based Wait is broken because of multiple attacks" I'm not swayed. Multiple attacks are a basic fact of life in GURPS at higher skills. And at lower skills, "I will Parry and then Counterattack" requires a successful Parry and a successful hit, and that's risky.

The only downside I can see is "Judo Parry - Arm Lock" but that's still A parries and tries it, B gets to defend and then finish his turn, so it's not like an auto-kill if the guy has a good parry.

[Balor Patch]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

Can you counterattack with a pollaxe?

Yes, but you can't take a Ready between the parry and counterattack, and would need to use a not-U attack mode if the parry was the same turn.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Balor Patch

Yes, but you can't take a Ready between the parry and counterattack, and would need to use a not-U attack mode if the parry was the same turn.

Parry as a staff, use perks to allow changing stances and skills, then attack with Polearm.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

Yeah, but so what? It's not like "A" couldn't attack "B" a whole bunch of times anyone without using Wait.

So it would, in fact, double up, wouldn't it? I'm not saying that's a problem, just disputing the assertion that it wouldn't happen.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

So it would, in fact, double up, wouldn't it? I'm not saying that's a problem, just disputing the assertion that it wouldn't happen.

it 'doubles up' the exact same way was a Normal wait would.
A normal wait:
A (I wait if some tries to attack me I attack them)
B (a step and attack A)
A (interrupts B after the step and attacks B)
B Parries A
A Parries B
A next turn I attack B, who will be at -4 to parry cause they haven't started the next turn yet.

[fifiste]

I seem to have unleashed something fierce :P

[Balor Patch]

Originally Posted by fifiste

I seem to have unleashed something fierce :P

Good job!

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

So it would, in fact, double up, wouldn't it? I'm not saying that's a problem, just disputing the assertion that it wouldn't happen.

Yes. The normal rhythm is ABAB. Waiting for attack doesn't change that, just stretches it to wABwAB. Waiting for the attack consequences* changes the rymthm to ABwBA. So it all depends on how you feel about Swedish music.

* Because I'm pretty sure none of us wants a Wait to trigger after defense but before damage.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

it 'doubles up' the exact same way was a Normal wait would.

Yes, though you can potentially weasel out slightly more effect, the timing is the same with respect to defense refresh. (By taking an AoA if the enemy missed their attack.)

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Yes, though you can potentially weasel out slightly more effect, the timing is the same with respect to defense refresh. (By taking an AoA if the enemy missed their attack.)

That's pretty much what I mean. You're not getting anything that you wouldn't get otherwise that I can see. If I'm wrong I want to know, but yeah, if all it does is let you use a different combination of rolls to pile some attacks on, it's no big deal to me.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Parry as a staff, use perks to allow changing stances and skills, then attack with Polearm.

Taking a Wait with a Defensive Attack should work too. If you can attack and then still parry, you should be able to parry and then attack. You trade off some damage, though, but then you'll get to use some of the higher-damage attack modes.