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Old 04-04-2020, 09:05 PM   #1
MrValkyr
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Default Atlantean Sword Paradox

Help us resolve a rules question. One of our players had the Atlantean Sword which is safe from curses or bad stuff.

They were hit with a curse to get rid of 500 good prices worth of items.

The argument was whether or not that sword could be given up to satisfy the curse in leu of other items that would also satisfy the curse.

Can an item that can't be lost to a curse or bad stuff be lossed by proxy such as a curse that affects other items? What if the bad stuff is death?
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:40 PM   #2
ObnoxiousSnipe
 
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Default Atlantean sword argument

Hello guys our family loves this game and play it often, but had a huge argument about this card. The card says it cannot be lost to curses or bad stuff and the player lost to Lance-A-Lot. The bad stuff is to discard 500 gold pieces worth of items. If this is the only item and worth 600 does the player have to lose that item or does the bad stuff do nothing?
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Atlantean sword argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObnoxiousSnipe View Post
Hello guys our family loves this game and play it often, but had a huge argument about this card. The card says it cannot be lost to curses or bad stuff and the player lost to Lance-A-Lot. The bad stuff is to discard 500 gold pieces worth of items. If this is the only item and worth 600 does the player have to lose that item or does the bad stuff do nothing?
Sure seems like that would be Bad Stuff, which is explicitly stated that the Sword has Immunity to.

I would think if thatís all ye had to lose, then you lose nothing....
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Old 04-04-2020, 10:15 PM   #4
ObnoxiousSnipe
 
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Default Re: Atlantean sword argument

Okay if if the person has multiple items can they say they pick that item to lose nothing?
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:55 PM   #5
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Atlantean sword argument

Merged the two threads.

Short answer: if the card says it can't be lost to Bad Stuff, then it can't be lost even when the Bad Stuff isn't specific. However, you can't use it to protect other Items -- if you have other Items that fulfill the conditions, they're vulnerable to the effects.
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Old 04-05-2020, 12:34 AM   #6
MrValkyr
 
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Default Re: Atlantean sword argument

The line editor's response makes no sense. The cards bad stuff is that an amount of items has to be lost in order to equal a certain coin amount. which means that to lose a sword that can't be lost as bad stuff is a proxy result no different than losing an item to death because you lost everything as a proxy result of a bad stuff. This precedence would also change multiple applications in the game. if there was a bad stuff or curse that requires you to change your board with another player you would argue that that item is safe from that change. if you had to give up 500 coins worth of items and you only had two items you would be forced to give away the item that didn't have the protection of bad stuff, what if you wanted to give the sword away and an opposing player would say no you have to give the other item away because that one is protected from bad stuff. This essentially creates a scenario where you don't have control of your items.

Even in death. if death is a result of bad stuff or a curse the item is protected by proxy. This example you lose the sword by proxy of having to lose a certain amount of gold. If death is a bad stuff and most rules clearly State you have to do something unless a card otherwise States you do not have to... Death was a bad stuff in my car for text me for bad stuff. The cards protection Trump's the result of the bad stuff. You cannot set a precedence like that.
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Old 04-05-2020, 01:03 AM   #7
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Atlantean sword argument

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Originally Posted by MrValkyr View Post
The line editor's response makes no sense.
I disagree (obviously) but let's work through it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrValkyr View Post
The cards bad stuff is that an amount of items has to be lost in order to equal a certain coin amount. which means that to lose a sword that can't be lost as bad stuff is a proxy result no different than losing an item to death because you lost everything as a proxy result of a bad stuff.
I'm not sure what you mean by "proxy" here. The card says it can't be lost to Bad Stuff; that seems pretty clear to me.

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Originally Posted by MrValkyr View Post
This precedence would also change multiple applications in the game. if there was a bad stuff or curse that requires you to change your board with another player you would argue that that item is safe from that change.
Yes, I would. That would could as "losing" the card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrValkyr View Post
if you had to give up 500 coins worth of items and you only had two items you would be forced to give away the item that didn't have the protection of bad stuff, what if you wanted to give the sword away and an opposing player would say no you have to give the other item away because that one is protected from bad stuff. This essentially creates a scenario where you don't have control of your items.
I don't see the problem. You can't lose the protected card, so you have to lose the other one. That's not a case of "losing control of your Items," it's just how the rule on the card works.

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Even in death. if death is a result of bad stuff or a curse the item is protected ... You cannot set a precedence like that.
It's the what the rule on the card says. Munchkin is a name of exceptions and this is one of them.
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Old 04-05-2020, 01:27 AM   #8
Hobbs5212
 
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Default Re: Atlantean sword argument

So if a card is protected from bad stuff and curses, you lose the ability to volunteer it in response to bad stuff and curses?

If you need to lose a a hand item or you lose level and you item can be lost to bad stuff then you can't lose it.

And...

In this case the sword itself isn't being targeted directly, the player should be able to sacrifice anything they want to meet the 500 coin reqtuirment. That's what is meant by proxy. The curse isn't taking your sword away you are choosing to give it up.

If this is thought of in the "real world" you owe a guy 500 coins worth of stuff and you have a pair of boots and a sword. As the owner of the sword you should be able to go hey here is "MY" sword you can have it. It's protection from bad stuff or curses is being used as a negative modifier by the line moderator. That doesn't make sense if you think of yourself as a adventurer in a dungeon faced with the problem.

It's my item
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Old 04-05-2020, 01:30 AM   #9
Hobbs5212
 
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Default Re: Atlantean sword argument

Also that would mean that the item always has his protection whether it's in play in your hand or in any other situation. If it's the only card on the board and you have to sacrifice 500 coins you can just say I don't have $5 coins you can lie and there could be easily 500 coins in your hand. If you received bad stuff that forced you to swap hands with another player based on the moderators response the card itself is protected not you so it can't be lost
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Old 04-05-2020, 01:34 AM   #10
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Atlantean sword argument

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Originally Posted by Hobbs5212 View Post
So if a card is protected from bad stuff and curses, you lose the ability to volunteer it in response to bad stuff and curses?
The card says it can't be lost. Unless there's an extra clause that says "unless you want to" (some cards DO have that), that means you don't have the option. If you want to play it differently in your home games (or home game, I guess, since all three of you just created accounts from the same IP address) knock yourselves out. I'm locking this thread and hitting the sack.
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