Stone-Weapon Armor-Divisors and Blunt Trauma

[Kraydak]

Originally Posted by Trachmyr

...
Here is a Houserule I would like you to critique:

Instead of giving Stone Weapons a 0.5 Armor Divisor, the rules for "Blunt Trauma and Edged Weapons" (Low-Tech, page 102) would be extended to include Impaling Stone Weapons. For Cutting Stone Weapons, the rules for "Blunt Trauma and Edged Weapons" apply as normal but damage must exceed three times cutting DR before the weapon gets it's normal cutting wound modifier.

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Many Thanks,
Trachmyr

The problem with stone is not its sharpness, but rather its fragility (brittle!) and the fact that you cannot resharpen a stone blade many times (microliths, not at all). Armor divisors or edge-protection modifications are therefore not the right direction to go. Instead, play with HT checks on hits to keep cut/imp (failure changing damage to cr or destroying the weapon outright), with repair easy but permanently damaging the weapon (microliths won't suffer permanent damage). Having a skilled Armorer/Machinist in the party is a must.

In time-sensitive situations, play up the fact that stone blades get dull fast, and in a more permanent fashion than metal blades. I can see your characters trying to cut through a tough bridge to drop the pursuit in the canyon below, with the Machinist in the party desperately resharpening blades handed to him by the cutters, taking extreme haste and destroying some blades through the resulting crit-failures.

[Trachmyr]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I would probably set the cutting weapon threshold at 4 times rather than three times. Thus preserving the RAW multiplier in how hard it is for stone blades to get through armor. But this does seem like a good idea.

I considered that, but decided to go with x3 for two reasons... first is that a 4x DR, even a light DR of 1-2 points can completely shut down most cutting weapons. The second is due to the way GURPS handles multiple modifiers, making them additive rather than multiplicative.

Also bear in mind that this is for well honed stone edges, duller edges would certainly use a Penetration Multiplier of x4 (or simply making damage straight crushing).

I'm a bit puzzled by axes being better maces than round maces are, but that's built into Low Tech, not an effect of your houserule.

I never looked at those specific numbers, so I'll have to take your word for it. ;)

Problematic with this is that it completely removes any difference between stone and steel against natural DR rather than armor DR. While there may have been something wrong with the difference in the first place, I don't know if completely erasing it is better.

Now that is something I didn't consider and will have to give some thought... it would certainly make Mammoth hunting with spear more viable, but maybe too viable. Hmmm... have to think about that one. Thanks for pointing that out!

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I'm a bit puzzled by axes being better maces than round maces are, but that's built into Low Tech, not an effect of your houserule.

Maces usually do more damage, and all scale and mail has lower DR v. the mace than the axe. Why do you think axes are better?

[Trachmyr]

Originally Posted by Kraydak

The problem with stone is not its sharpness, but rather its fragility (brittle!) and the fact that you cannot resharpen a stone blade many times (microliths, not at all). Armor divisors or edge-protection modifications are therefore not the right direction to go. Instead, play with HT checks on hits to keep cut/imp (failure changing damage to cr or destroying the weapon outright), with repair easy but permanently damaging the weapon (microliths won't suffer permanent damage). Having a skilled Armorer/Machinist in the party is a must.

In time-sensitive situations, play up the fact that stone blades get dull fast, and in a more permanent fashion than metal blades. I can see your characters trying to cut through a tough bridge to drop the pursuit in the canyon below, with the Machinist in the party desperately resharpening blades handed to him by the cutters, taking extreme haste and destroying some blades through the resulting crit-failures.

I do have a houserule for dulling stone weapons, time to resharpen them, and chance of breakage if you try to resharpen them.

• Basically if you strike at any DR, the blade dulls if you roll DR or less on a d6... quality modifiers apply. Obsidian treats DR as double! Ground Stone Tips (Basalt, Jade) treat non-metallic armor as halved (round down).

• Reshapening requires an armoury roll & time (a lot of time for basalt & jade), a crit fail breaks the tip. Each resharpening attempt may break the tip even if not a critical fail... roll for breakage as if the weapon parried a heavy weapon, quality modifiers apply. Chance to break is +1 if you rushed the job.

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However RAW does use an armor divisor... and I understand why it was added, stone tips don't penetrate through dense material as easily as metal ones. But an armor divisor doesn't really work right, so my Houserule is intended to replace it, but still represent the lower penetration of stone weapons.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Maces usually do more damage, and all scale and mail has lower DR v. the mace than the axe. Why do you think axes are better?

Granted some armors have higher cutting DR than crushing DR. However, your basic axe does the same sw+2 as your basic round mace, and weighs a pound less. So against armor that doesn't have special responses to either (which covers most pre-metal armor types) the axe is just as damaging even if it is edge-protected out of doing cut damage.

At higher TLs you get the more advanced Mace rather than the Round Mace, putting the mace ahead, and you get more armors that are weak to crushing damage. But at TL0-1 it's a little funny looking.