[Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

I've hit a snag, guys. Well, not so much a "snag" as a "complete lack of enthusiasm" for doing the rest of Captain America's cast (primarily villains, it looks).

The guys I had planned to do are: Matador (probably not this soon after Machete, though, for various reasons), MODOK, Nightshade, Plantman, Primus, Red Guardian, Scarecrow, Sin (daughter of the Red Skull), Taskmaster, ULTIMATUM, Union Jack, Vermin, Max Zaran, Arnim Zola, and the rest of the Mutant Force/Freedom Force (Meteorite, Oracle, Paralyzer, and Slither) and Serpent Squad (Viper (original male) and Rattler).

(Red Skull is one of those "Year Two" guys, like Apocalypse and Galactus.)

So, does anyone want to help collaborate on any of these guys in the queue?

Well, it would be helpful if you had some kind of benchmark for abilities and a brief description of the abilities of these characters. You've been understandably making changes to some of the characters to fit your particular world so it can be hard to tell exactly what your version of a character should look like.

I have some ideas on how to handle Taskmaster which I could post.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Quick question because if I don't ask now it will be too late... does Marvel own the rights to the name "Primus" in comic books? Does he have an alternate title available?

I just know of at least one other Primus while it isn't as bad as say naming a brand new character "Batman", it is on par with naming one Jor-El or some other well known tertiary character.

It's more like naming a character "Rampage". Which could be a robot who turns into a tiger, a solar powered female hulk, or a guy in a low rent suit of powered armour depending on the source.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It's more like naming a character "Rampage". Which could be a robot who turns into a tiger, a solar powered female hulk, or a guy in a low rent suit of powered armour depending on the source.

Other examples - DC and Marvel both have villains named Scarecrow as well as multiple Tarantulas. Not a lawyer so I don't know where they draw the line legally.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Infornific

Other examples - DC and Marvel both have villains named Scarecrow as well as multiple Tarantulas. Not a lawyer so I don't know where they draw the line legally.

Simply put, copyright does not attach to common English (or as in the case of Primus Latin) words just because you've used them to name a character. Other characters can have the same name. But they do have to be other characters. Marvel would be in trouble with DC's lawyers if they had a character named "Scarecrow" who used fear-inducing gas weapons. Which is why their actual ripoff of DC's Scarecrow is "Mister Fear".

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

Matador (probably not this soon after Machete, though, for various reasons), MODOK, Nightshade, Plantman, Primus, Red Guardian, Scarecrow, Sin (daughter of the Red Skull), Taskmaster, ULTIMATUM, Union Jack, Vermin, Max Zaran, Arnim Zola, and the rest of the Mutant Force/Freedom Force (Meteorite, Oracle, Paralyzer, and Slither) and Serpent Squad (Viper (original male) and Rattler).

Originally Posted by Infornific

Well, it would be helpful if you had some kind of benchmark for abilities and a brief description of the abilities of these characters. You've been understandably making changes to some of the characters to fit your particular world so it can be hard to tell exactly what your version of a character should look like.

I have some ideas on how to handle Taskmaster which I could post.

Well, of those I list, most would be quite similar to their Official Handbook entries in ability, though probably with alterations in history ranging from slight to extreme.

I've got an entry for Red Guardian mostly written up, but I don't have the stats; I could post it here if people want.

For Union Jack, I've got the idea that s/he would be the granddaughter of the WWII Union Jack, who identifies as a male and takes hormone therapy to look and sound male - much to her grandfather's dismay. (Oh, and Cap is his/her godfather.) I had the rough idea that Cap would be more accepting of it than his old Invaders buddy.

To be honest, of all those I list, Taskmaster is the one I'd have the most trouble with, given his photographic reflexes.


Also, I don't want Matador to make Stilt-Man and Leapfrog look good by comparison, though I don't have much for him besides the really brief info I gave in the entry for Batroc's Brigade.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Simply put, copyright does not attach to common English (or as in the case of Primus Latin) words just because you've used them to name a character. Other characters can have the same name. But they do have to be other characters. Marvel would be in trouble with DC's lawyers if they had a character named "Scarecrow" who used fear-inducing gases weapons. Which is why their actual ripoff of DC's Scarecrow is "Mister Fear".

This is also how Marvel and DC can both get away with characters named "Captain Marvel", though due to trademark issues DC cannot call the title their Captain Marvel appears in Captain Marvel due to Marvel having a title by that name. The characters are different enough visually and in powers that no one can mistake the two.

IIRC, Marvel's first Captain Marvel title was in the '60s before DC acquired the Fawcett characters. There was also some litigation in the '80s (I believe) between the two over trademark rights when DC wanted to put out their own Captain Marvel title when Marvel was about to cancel theirs. This is why DC's title is always Shazam! or some variation on it. (Also why some folks think DC's Captain Marvel is actually named "Shazam".) If Marvel goes for a certain amount of time without their own title, they may end up losing the trademark (though not the rights to the name of the character).

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It's more like naming a character "Rampage". Which could be a robot who turns into a tiger, a solar powered female hulk, or a guy in a low rent suit of powered armour depending on the source.

Thanks I was in a hurry and yeah, my example is pretty terrible. Heh, even in Transformers there are multiple characters named Rampage: the Beast Wars iteration that turned into a large tank-like crab or crab-like tank (in addition to a crab-tank-like robot ;) ) might be the most iconic.

If "Primus" as someone else isn't an issue... then it isn't an issue. I wasn't worried about the legal issues (...this is a GURPS thread). I was worried about confusion.

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

(Also why some folks think DC's Captain Marvel is actually named "Shazam".)

Well... some folks since 2011 think that because DC finally just went and renamed him "Shazam". ;)

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

Well, of those I list, most would be quite similar to their Official Handbook entries in ability, though probably with alterations in history ranging from slight to extreme.

I've got an entry for Red Guardian mostly written up, but I don't have the stats; I could post it here if people want.

For Union Jack, I've got the idea that s/he would be the granddaughter of the WWII Union Jack, who identifies as a male and takes hormone therapy to look and sound male - much to her grandfather's dismay. (Oh, and Cap is his/her godfather.) I had the rough idea that Cap would be more accepting of it than his old Invaders buddy.

To be honest, of all those I list, Taskmaster is the one I'd have the most trouble with, given his photographic reflexes.


Also, I don't want Matador to make Stilt-Man and Leapfrog look good by comparison, though I don't have much for him besides the really brief info I gave in the entry for Batroc's Brigade.

Hmm. I was thinking more of a loose sense of where you think they stack up. Unfortunately, I don't have the handbook - I'd be relying on what I can find on the web and that's annoyingly imprecise. There's a whole lot of characters simply described as expert in hand to hand combat which can range from merely elite to Captain America/Iron Fist. Of course the writers can be inconsistent as well.

I was thinking of a FUDGE type scale with a general sense of abilities:

Mediocre: Amateur ability, skills of 10-11.
Fair: Competent professional, main skills of 12-13.
Good: Elite Professional, skills of 14-15, some minor related Advantage
Excellent: A master, skills 16 to ?, a major Advantage (Gadgeteer, Trained by a Master. etc.) The level of a starting GURPS Action character.
Superb: One of the world's best, skills ? to ?, multiple Advantages
Legendary: Contender for GOAT, skills ? to ?, multiple Advantages

So a street thug would have Mediocre combat ability, an ordinary police detective would have Fair investigative ability, an elite commando would have Good combat skills, etc.

For powers, online references or just a general description (can run at 60 mph, blast is equivalent to a sniper rifle, etc.)

So you might describe Union Jack as having Excellent gun, knife and unarmed combat skills and Good investigative ability, with the physical conditioning of an Olympic athlete. That gives a sense of just how high skills should go, from someone who could whip a few street thugs to someone who can go a few rounds with Captain America.

I'll see if I can write up my ideas for Taskmaster later.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Infornific

I was thinking of a FUDGE type scale with a general sense of abilities:

Mediocre: Amateur ability, skills of 10-11.
Fair: Competent professional, main skills of 12-13.
Good: Elite Professional, skills of 14-15, some minor related Advantage
Excellent: A master, skills 16 to ?, a major Advantage (Gadgeteer, Trained by a Master. etc.) The level of a starting GURPS Action character.
Superb: One of the world's best, skills ? to ?, multiple Advantages
Legendary: Contender for GOAT, skills ? to ?, multiple Advantages

In this vein, here's a quick rundown of what I see some of these folks having:

Matador (probably not this soon after Machete, though, for various reasons)
- Good to Excellent in Rapier and/or Broadsword, possibly with Art variant as well
- Good in everything else related to bullfighting

Meteorite
- melee-range anti-grav powers; must be touching someone/something to negate its gravity
- superhuman strength and durability by increasing own density
- Mediocre to Fair melee combatant
- thuggish personality

MODOK
- Superb to Legendary in IQ
- not sure if he should have psychic powers
- effectively quadriplegic, but antigrav harness

Nightshade
- Excellent hand to hand combattant
- Excellent marksman with small arms
- Criminal record
- Genius criminal mastermind

Oracle
- Telescopic Vision bordering on Clairvoyance (Vision-based)
- Good shot with a rifle
- Excellent to Superb Vision

Paralyzer
- Electric-based paralyzing shocks delivered at melee and short range
- Good skill at Innate Attack and Boxing
- Wears metal

Plantman
- Good to Excellent plant control power, possibly with gadget modifiers
- Mediocre to Fair at melee and guns

Primus
- Robot
- Shapeshifter, normally featureless
- not sure what else he'd have

Rattler
- vibrational attack (w/ Cone) from his tail.

Red Guardian
- Superb melee combatant
- carries a shield similar to but not as durable as Captain America's
- Good related soldier skills

Scarecrow
- Good to Excellent contortionist and thief
- have to look up what else he'd have

Sin (daughter of the Red Skull)
- Beautiful
- Crazy
- Superb marksman
- Excellent melee combatant

Slither
- Excellent contortionist
- Snake-like bite, venomous fangs

Taskmaster
- Photographic reflexes
- Superb hand to hand combatant
- Excellent ranged skills

ULTIMATUM
- somewhere between my HYDRA and AIM write-ups.
- semi-competent mooks

Union Jack
- Excellent hand to hand combatant
- Good skill at Guns (Pistol)
- Good investigative skill

Max Zaran
- Excellent to superb melee skills all around
- Weapon Master (All)?

the others... not sure yet.

[Infornific]

OK, I'm trying to come up with a version of the Red Guardian. In the meantime, some thoughts on how to represent the abilities of the Taskmaster:

My assumption is that it takes little time for his photographic reflexes to kick in - even if he hasn't met or observed an opponent before an Evaluate maneuver should do the trick. Up the value of the Limitation if you want this to be more of an effort. Also, I gave him a generic Super limitation but that can be tweaked.

1. Combat Reflexes [15] +

raise Combat Reflexes to Enhanced Time Sense (Cosmic +50%, Combat Only -20%, Super -10%, Nuisance: Has to observe opponent first -5%) [35]

Total is 50 points.

Basically, the Taskmaster can act before anyone he's had a chance to evaluate, even if that person has Enhanced Time Sense. He's just that good at predicting what opponents will do.


2. Weaponmaster (All)! (Super -10%) [164] A Wildcard power that lets him duplicate up to 45 (41 after the Supers limitation) points of appropriate learn-able Advantages. So Trained by a Master for unarmed combat, Perfect Balance for Parkour moves, Weaponmaster (Bow) and Heroic Archer to mimic Hawkeye, Gunslinger for gunplay, etc.


3. Fist!^! DX+10 [576] - his Wildcard power lets him duplicate any physical type WildCard skill. I though about using Modular abilities but that was even more expensive. I would add in some kind of Modular Abilities to let him switch between appropriate Perks and Techniques to buff the above abilities.


4. Style Familiarity (All) (Cosmic +50%, Super -10%, Nuisance: Has to observe opponent first -5%, Physical benefits only -25%) [22]

Taskmaster gains all the combat and learning benefits of being trained in any formal style he's had a chance to observe. The Cosmic means he can even get the combat benefits of Style familiarity against opponents who are trained in multiple styles or lack formal training.


5. Enhanced Defense +1 (Super -10%, Nuisance: Has to observe opponent first -5%) [30]

Taskmaster gets +1 to all defenses against opponents he has observed.


6. Combat Talent (all combat skills) (Super -10%, Nuisance: Has to observe opponent first -5%, -40% only to make and resist feints and make deceptive attacks) [14]

Taskmaster gets +2 to make and resist Feints against opponents he has observed. In addition, his opponents get -1 to all active defenses against his attacks - he is considered to always make Deceptive attacks for at least a -1 penalty to defense.


To summarize, Taskmaster can replicate pretty much any personal combat skill and learn-able combat advantage. He replicates these skills at +10 to (usually) DX. He automatically gets initiative against any opponent he's studied, +2 to Feint attempts and +1 to all defenses. In addition, his opponents are at -1 to all defenses against him.

Hope that's enough to get you going.