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Old 02-22-2018, 10:17 AM   #11
Bruno
 
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Default Re: Restoration Spell Makes It Worse

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
In a setting where healing magic is cheap, it might make a decent minor punishment for crime. As for the limb not being crippled, that's reasonably easy to fix...
If you're already half-breaking peoples legs as punishment, casting Restoration on them isn't exactly the problem here. You could just completely break their legs instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade View Post
I can see that as a possible interpretation. However, you can cast healing spells on someone who's not injured. Many spells specifically list situations where they have no effect, but Restoration doesn't.
There is no crippling injury to act on. Fast Fire and Extinguish Fire don't need to list that it has no effect when there's no fire, why should Restoration need to list that it has no effect when there's no crippling injury? Why would you need to list that you can't cast healing spells on someone who isn't injured?

The rules are not written with the idea that you can abandon all common sense in reading them and still get sensible answers.

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Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade View Post
My relative could see better a day after cataract surgery--with that interpretation of Restoration, it would have left him blind for a month.
Your relative has the benefit of TL8 surgery. All the way up to a TL 6 environment, having the eye corrected pain free, surgery free, and with no chance of infection is a pretty big deal. Do one eye at a time and you don't even have blindness.

I know people who would have to take this option over surgery, due to the infection risk. I also know people who would voluntarily take this option over the idea of having someone poke around in their eyeballs.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:48 AM   #12
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Default Re: Restoration Spell Makes It Worse

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
....There is no crippling injury to act on. Fast Fire and Extinguish Fire don't need to list that it has no effect when there's no fire, why should Restoration need to list that it has no effect when there's no crippling injury? Why would you need to list that you can't cast healing spells on someone who isn't injured?
What if the person already has a crippling injury, but one that's not totally crippling? If Restoration was intended to be able to be used offensively, i.e. causing a month of total Deafness to a person with Hard of Hearing, or Blindness to a Near-Sighted person for a month, then I think it should show the possibility for resistance.

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
....Your relative has the benefit of TL8 surgery. All the way up to a TL 6 environment, having the eye corrected pain free, surgery free, and with no chance of infection is a pretty big deal. Do one eye at a time and you don't even have blindness.
No, you wouldn't have Blindness for a month, you'd effectively have One Eye. And there is a low chance of infection, which can range from sinus infection to the very serious Endophthalmitis which can cause Blindness.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:29 AM   #13
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Default Re: Restoration Spell Makes It Worse

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Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade View Post
If Restoration was intended to be able to be used offensively, i.e. causing a month of total Deafness to a person with Hard of Hearing, or Blindness to a Near-Sighted person for a month, then I think it should show the possibility for resistance.
Casting time 1 minute, energy cost 15. That's not an offensive spell.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: Restoration Spell Makes It Worse

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Casting time 1 minute, energy cost 15. That's not an offensive spell.
For 15 energy, and casting time in seconds, you could kill multiple people with save-or-die effects.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:43 AM   #15
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Default Re: Restoration Spell Makes It Worse

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Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade View Post
What if the person already has a crippling injury, but one that's not totally crippling?
GURPS doesn't have those. So if you're insisting on holding by every letter in the books, this can't happen.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: Restoration Spell Makes It Worse

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
GURPS doesn't have those. So if you're insisting on holding by every letter in the books, this can't happen.
Well...

A Temporary Crippling Injury to a Foot isn't totally crippling... it's equivalent to a sprained ankle.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:13 PM   #17
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Default Re: Restoration Spell Makes It Worse

Does Restoration specify that it can be used to remove Disadvantages such as Hard of Hearing? Or does it just reference crippling? If the former, then that means it does make you worse off for a bit. There may be specific instances where modern technology is arguably better than the Restoration spell, but that hardly strikes me as a bug.

If it just references crippling, then you're talking about going from no function to full function in much less time than you'd be looking at for Lasting or Permanent Crippling. Of course, I have to wonder how - or if - Restoration would interact with "Lasting and Permanent Injuries" from Martial Arts, which use the crippling mechanics for certain Major Wounds to see if the character develops infirmities due to internal injuries.

As for resistance, it seems to me that, unless a spell is specifically meant to be irresistible, there should always be the possibility of a resistance, even if the spell is completely beneficial. After all, in some settings Healing spells can harm the undead and similar, and even without that someone who is dying from torture may not want a healing spell to keep them alive for still more torture. In the case of Restoration, Resisted by HT (like Wither Limb) seems appropriate.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: Restoration Spell Makes It Worse

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Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade View Post
What if the person already has a crippling injury, but one that's not totally crippling? If Restoration was intended to be able to be used offensively, i.e. causing a month of total Deafness to a person with Hard of Hearing, or Blindness to a Near-Sighted person for a month, then I think it should show the possibility for resistance.
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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
GURPS doesn't have those. So if you're insisting on holding by every letter in the books, this can't happen.
Hard of Hearing is in Basic p. 138, and Bad Sight (Nearsighted) is in Basic p. 123. There are a number of other Disadvantages that are partially but not totally crippling.
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Restoration Spell Makes It Worse

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post

As for resistance, it seems to me that, unless a spell is specifically meant to be irresistible, there should always be the possibility of a resistance, even if the spell is completely beneficial. After all, in some settings Healing spells can harm the undead and similar, and even without that someone who is dying from torture may not want a healing spell to keep them alive for still more torture. In the case of Restoration, Resisted by HT (like Wither Limb) seems appropriate.
I use the following guidelines under this circumstance - spells used offensively that were not designed for that purpose.

Boons
Many spells are considered ‘harmless’ and are not automatically resisted. They become resisted spells under three circumstances; check in this order:

First, if the intent of the caster is to do harm or hindrance, the subject may resist with the greater of Will or HT. The baleful intentions of the caster infect a spell not designed to be used in a hostile way.

Secondly, if the motives of the caster are pure, but a suspicious or prideful subject rejects the magical aid, he, if conscious and aware of the casting, may resist with Will.

Finally, subjects with Magic Resistance resist all spells regardless of the intent of the caster or subject. They must resist and if the spell is a Boon, they resist with HT. A subject with magic resistance who actively resists a boon gains two resistance rolls, one versus Will and one versus HT. Both must fail for the spell to take effect.
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: Restoration Spell Makes It Worse

Hard of Hearing does not necessarily represent crippled ears and Bad Sight definitely does not represent crippled eyes (use One Eye for that). I would personally not allow Restoration to repair disadvantages from character creation, as they should represent unhealable disabilities in a magical society, as the character should have otherwise had them repaired. At 15 energy, Restoration is a very cheap spell, and a healer could cast the spell ceremonially with the assistance of the family and friends of a target over 10 minutes without spending any of their personal FP. Even with realistic wages for magical healers ($50 per hour at TL3), even a Poor peasant could borrow enough money for one hour of time to repair a crippled body part.
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