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Old 01-16-2018, 02:29 PM   #321
JLV
 
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Default Re: Rick's healing spells

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
As far as healing is concerned I looked at things in a different way; as the rules stand, until a character is reduced to ST3 they suffer no lasting effect, therefore I considered any other sort of damage only temporary knocks, shocks or morale loss. This was recovered quickly between encounters. That's not strictly the way the rules worked but it seemed logical and allowed more extended play without everyone being wounded all the time.
This comment actually gets to the heart of the issue -- in TFT as written, what we found was that any dungeon delve became a 1 hour period of intense fighting which cleared some section of the dungeon, followed by several weeks of healing, followed by re-clearing the same section of dungeon (and maybe a bit more since the entire area wouldn't be repopulated in a few weeks, but some would), followed by several weeks of healing...a sort of "1, 2, 3, kick" sequence repeated indefinitely. Without SOME form of rapid healing, fairly plentiful in nature, the game bogged down in healing time (time which was wasted in terms of learning new skills/spells, gaining new information, or working mundane jobs, since you're not allowed to do anything else while you're healing).

So, you either went in with dozens of "cannon-fodder" types to absorb the losses while your "heroes" lurked in the back in relative safety (not very heroic, eh?), or you went through the short fight, long convalescence paradigm, all of which destroyed the "ambiance" of the dungeon crawl theme. The general solution was easy and quick healing -- but that sort of ruins part of the theme of TFT! Catch-22 is alive and well!
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Old 01-16-2018, 03:11 PM   #322
Chris Goodwin
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

It might just be that TFT the arena fighting game and TFT the roleplaying game are two different games that happen to share the same system. In the arena, 0 ST means the fight is over; presumably the character is dead, but it doesn't really matter except in a continuing arena campaign (not necessarily the same thing as a continuing RPG campaign). In a roleplaying campaign, we tend to get a little more protective of our characters; if the other party members can revive them they do. A character isn't really dead until all the party members are at least down.
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Old 01-16-2018, 03:19 PM   #323
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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There is already a provision for being incapacitated but not killed. And the damage rules provide for effects that occur before death (knock down and various penalties). So, I don't think the game would be structurally changed by adding a 'stay alive at 0' rule - it would just constitute a kind of grade inflation, where the robustness to damage increases simply because we want characters to survive longer.
I'm not actually seeing a problem with that... ;-)
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Old 01-16-2018, 03:40 PM   #324
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin View Post
It might just be that TFT the arena fighting game and TFT the roleplaying game are two different games that happen to share the same system. In the arena, 0 ST means the fight is over; presumably the character is dead, but it doesn't really matter except in a continuing arena campaign (not necessarily the same thing as a continuing RPG campaign). In a roleplaying campaign, we tend to get a little more protective of our characters; if the other party members can revive them they do. A character isn't really dead until all the party members are at least down.
They are of course two different things; that's a very important, and astute, distinction to make. The game was great. The RPG was nearly great. To me, the only major failing with the latter was that of progression via attribute increase; in the game that was fine but in the RPG it was a problem. Of course, that's just my view, and clearly others disagree.
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Old 01-16-2018, 04:05 PM   #325
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Default Limits on Healing.

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...
Edited to add: I've always wondered, as people came up with ways to heal others, whether or not there ought to be some kind of "limit" on "extraordinary" healing -- like with magic or potions -- so that an injured guy can only benefit from them once, and then after that has to heal normally. But I'm not clever enough to figure out a simple way of doing that, and to be part of TFT it should be a simple, straightforward rule with universal application and which DOESN'T add a ton of record keeping to the game...)
Hi JLV, everyone.
One important measure should be, I think, what is more dramatic? If the game is dramatic, and interesting things are happening in it, there are good odds that the game will be more successful.

Are mortally wounded people dramatic? Yes. Is saving someone from death dramatic? Yes. Is sitting around for 3 weeks while one member of the party heals dramatic? No. Is healing which is so easy that wounds become trivial dramatic? No.

All of my rules on healing err on the side of making the game more dramatic.

Now consider the drama of someone fighting for life, with doctors doing everything they can to keep the guy alive for just one more hour. Is this dramatic? Yes. Can it happen in TFT? No. Healing potions make healing too easy.

I find it a bit strange that so many people are so strongly against allowing someone with health -2 being saved, but who are untroubled by healing potions.

One thing I've done is add "Weapons of Vitiation", which when they wound you CURSE your wound. Any wound done by such a weapon is likely to get infected and NO magical healing of any type will work on the wound. Including healing potions.

Weapons of Vitiation are fairly common, and people who use them are much hated. I have a few other things (e.g. manticores and basilisks) that make magically un-healable wounds. Cursed wounds are dramatic.

JLV, rather than making a general limit on every wound which requires paperwork, just make the most bad-ass wounds resistant. GM's who hate healing magic or healing potions can remove them from the game, or make cursed wounds more common, or both. But I know from experience, that if TFT has NO healing magic, inexperienced GM's will make spells where for 1 fST a wizard can heal 1d+2 points of damage.

I would rather TFT has well balanced, well considered, healing spells than no healing spells.

Warm regards, Rick.

Last edited by Rick_Smith; 01-16-2018 at 04:06 PM. Reason: fixed spelling error.
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Old 01-16-2018, 04:53 PM   #326
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

I'm not sure I understand what point there would be in making it harder to kill someone in TFT. If such a rule were applied in a balanced way across all PC's, NPC's and monsters, then all you are doing is delaying the inevitable and slowing the action without making combat any less dangerous. If such a rule were applied only to PCs (I'm not saying anyone has suggested this, but it is how some games work), then all you've done is taken an intrinsically unfair fight and dressed it up as a fair fight.
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Old 01-16-2018, 04:55 PM   #327
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Default Re: Limits on Healing.

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
I would rather TFT has well balanced, well considered, healing spells than no healing spells.

Warm regards, Rick.
Well, and this is rather the bottom line, isn't it? If healing spells are too powerful, they negate one of the key features of TFT -- its deadliness. If they are too weak then really all you're doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul -- Wilbur the Wizard gives up one point of ST to plus Fred the Fighter up by one ST point. At some point Wilbur declines to help anymore (it's costing him ST he can't afford, especially since they want him to use LIGHT, SLIPPERY FLOOR and KNOCK all the time...) and things wind up with everyone back in the local Inn in traction again. So where's the "sweet spot?"
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Old 01-16-2018, 05:14 PM   #328
Chris Goodwin
 
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Default Re: Limits on Healing.

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I'm not sure I understand what point there would be in making it harder to kill someone in TFT. If such a rule were applied in a balanced way across all PC's, NPC's and monsters, then all you are doing is delaying the inevitable and slowing the action without making combat any less dangerous. If such a rule were applied only to PCs (I'm not saying anyone has suggested this, but it is how some games work), then all you've done is taken an intrinsically unfair fight and dressed it up as a fair fight.
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Well, and this is rather the bottom line, isn't it? If healing spells are too powerful, they negate one of the key features of TFT -- its deadliness. If they are too weak then really all you're doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul -- Wilbur the Wizard gives up one point of ST to plus Fred the Fighter up by one ST point. At some point Wilbur declines to help anymore (it's costing him ST he can't afford, especially since they want him to use LIGHT, SLIPPERY FLOOR and KNOCK all the time...) and things wind up with everyone back in the local Inn in traction again. So where's the "sweet spot?"
Do you guys mean TFT, the arena combat game, or TFT the roleplaying game? If I'm playing a roleplaying game, I would at least like the option to be able to keep my character alive as long as possible.

I suggest an optional deadliness rule, at least as a toggle. Is a character dead at 0 ST? In a GMed game, the GM sets that at the time the campaign is created. In a PvP game, the players all decide together. It could additionally default to "yes" in a PvP game and "no" in a GMed game.
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Old 01-16-2018, 05:16 PM   #329
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Default How fast does fST recover?

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Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Well, and this is rather the bottom line, isn't it? If healing spells are too powerful, they negate one of the key features of TFT -- its deadliness. If they are too weak then really all you're doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul -- Wilbur the Wizard gives up one point of ST to plus Fred the Fighter up by one ST point. ... So where's the "sweet spot?"
Hi JLV, everyone.
My campaign uses, like every TFT campaign I've seen or played in, the rule that spells cost you fatigue, not damage. In the combat micro game, they did damage to you. But in Advance Wizard page 39 (bottom of second column), it changes this to the rule that spells are powered with exhaustion. 1 point is regained every 15 minutes.

So even if it was a 1:1 ratio, it is well worth the wizard taking one fatigue (which heals in 15 minutes) to fix a wound (which heals in 2 days).

(By the way, I abbreviate fatigue damage as fST, which allows me to clearly delineate fatigue damage and real damage.)

Have you read my healing spells? I feel that they neatly find the 'sweet spot'. They speed healing from 1 point per two days, to (say) 4 points per 2 days. (Depends on which level of the spell you have.) Combat is exactly the same level of deadliness, but the boring recovery after the fight is sped up. (And you can adventure and still heal as if you are getting bed rest.) Some high IQ versions are a bit better, but for the most part, these spells don't impact combat damage at all.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 01-16-2018, 06:12 PM   #330
Chris Goodwin
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

If I recall correctly, the group I played with came up with a healing spell, with basic and advanced versions. Both of them required the caster to feed ST in, and we played with damaging ST; the basic healing I think would let you feed in a max of 6 ST, and heal one more than the amount of ST you put in, or always 1 ST if used to heal the self; the advanced healing was better, but I think it would heal three more than the amount of ST or 3 ST if used on the self, and maybe with no maximum. The primary use was to heal someone else, though they would work -- slightly -- on the self, as mentioned.

I'm dredging this up from thirty years plus of old memories, so I could be way off, but that sounds roughly like the kind of thing we'd have come up with.
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