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Old 08-07-2016, 08:15 PM   #21
Kale
 
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Default Re: Question about Infinity, Centrum, the Cabal...

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Originally Posted by Tallor View Post
I'm no economist, but I would assume that building a TL7+ command economy is a lot easier when you're building it from the ground up after a major war. There's less economy to manage in the first place, plus there would be a power vacuum for new, radical forms of government and economy. That's my two government-issued cents, anyway.
It would probably grow out of handing out relief supplies and the like during the rebuilding phase. You would probably start with 'ration cards' or something for allocating limited resources to people. Once you have the grade system in place then you get the different social strata. Basically each increasing citizen level is accorded privileges/goods above the previous by a certain margin. The key would be to not make the changes so glaring as to poke a sharp stick into social resentment. Essentially the war gave Centrum the reset button necessary to put all this into place.
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Old 08-07-2016, 11:35 PM   #22
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Default Re: Question about Infinity, Centrum, the Cabal...

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Also in retrospect, centrum would probably view the lack of capitalism as desirable. Capitalists tend to upset the social order in general.
Is Centrum communist (light)?

I've always thought that Centrum would agree with Karl Marx on his point that capitalism inevitably leads to boom-and-bust cycles and that these are a bad thing. I'm reasonably sure they would canonically reject communism as well as capitalism (both the 'failed' and 'successful' forms of communism), but I could never quite say why. Possible reasons include:

1) Most communist timelines tend to be Russia or China-dominated, leading to severe linguistic problems for Centrum.
2) Their command economies tend to have glaring inefficiencies compared to Centrum, which Centrum would reject.
3) Leading communist thinkers in history have tended to be outside of the Anglo-French philosophical sphere, leading to cultural rejection of the label, regardless of the possible similarities.
4) By the time Centrum became a thing, 'class warfare' on their timeline had largely become an outmoded concept, replaced by "societal survival". This line of thinking was reinforced again by the WMDs in their final war, which didn't even care about wealth or merit, let alone social class. Even if they came across a successful Anglo-French communist timeline, they'd reject it because the philosophical basis of that society is something that they simply consider outmoded.
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Old 08-08-2016, 12:51 AM   #23
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Default Re: Question about Infinity, Centrum, the Cabal...

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Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Is Centrum communist (light)?

I've always thought that Centrum would agree with Karl Marx on his point that capitalism inevitably leads to boom-and-bust cycles and that these are a bad thing. I'm reasonably sure they would canonically reject communism as well as capitalism (both the 'failed' and 'successful' forms of communism), but I could never quite say why. Possible reasons include:

1) Most communist timelines tend to be Russia or China-dominated, leading to severe linguistic problems for Centrum.
2) Their command economies tend to have glaring inefficiencies compared to Centrum, which Centrum would reject.
3) Leading communist thinkers in history have tended to be outside of the Anglo-French philosophical sphere, leading to cultural rejection of the label, regardless of the possible similarities.
4) By the time Centrum became a thing, 'class warfare' on their timeline had largely become an outmoded concept, replaced by "societal survival". This line of thinking was reinforced again by the WMDs in their final war, which didn't even care about wealth or merit, let alone social class. Even if they came across a successful Anglo-French communist timeline, they'd reject it because the philosophical basis of that society is something that they simply consider outmoded.
One big reason is because Marxism is theoretically oriented toward giving the workers an equal share in the bounty produced by the industrial revolution. Centrum would reject that out of hand. The lowest levels of workers in Centrum society deserve nothing except the minimum to keep them functionally productive. The Level 1s are kept in line by knowing that if they work hard enough they'll eventually make it to Level 2 and level 3. And an ideology that extols revolution is anathema to Centrum.
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:48 AM   #24
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Default Re: Question about Infinity, Centrum, the Cabal...

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One big reason is because Marxism is theoretically oriented toward giving the workers an equal share in the bounty produced by the industrial revolution. Centrum would reject that out of hand. The lowest levels of workers in Centrum society deserve nothing except the minimum to keep them functionally productive. The Level 1s are kept in line by knowing that if they work hard enough they'll eventually make it to Level 2 and level 3. And an ideology that extols revolution is anathema to Centrum.
Can they really make it to level 2 and 3? The book is kept pretty vague on the exact workings of Centrum, but if this functions anything like a capitalist organizational structure then it's inherently a pyramid with inevitable choke points necessitating some workers being denied promotions. If McCentrums has one Level 2 manager for every 5 level 1 underlings and they service 100 citizens that means 20 people need to be born before it justifies promoting more then one person to level 2 regardless of how hard they work.
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Old 08-08-2016, 09:13 AM   #25
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Default Re: Question about Infinity, Centrum, the Cabal...

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Can they really make it to level 2 and 3? The book is kept pretty vague on the exact workings of Centrum, but if this functions anything like a capitalist organizational structure then it's inherently a pyramid with inevitable choke points necessitating some workers being denied promotions. If McCentrums has one Level 2 manager for every 5 level 1 underlings and they service 100 citizens that means 20 people need to be born before it justifies promoting more then one person to level 2 regardless of how hard they work.
But Centrum has a perennial labor shortage (probably contributed to by a lack of leisure time, and an inability to either help your offspring or benefit from their labour leading to low reproductive rates) that it compensates for using both automation and imported labour from subject worlds.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:22 AM   #26
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Default Re: Question about Infinity, Centrum, the Cabal...

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But Centrum has a perennial labor shortage (probably contributed to by a lack of leisure time, and an inability to either help your offspring or benefit from their labour leading to low reproductive rates) that it compensates for using both automation and imported labour from subject worlds.
Let me more succinctly stat my issue.

Assuming higher tiers within Centrum manage lower tiers then there must always be more lower tiers then higher to necessitate the number of higher tiers needed to assure order.

So you can't justify Tier ones being treated poorly do to lack of merit when their are other factors that can denie them elevated status.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:28 AM   #27
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Default Re: Question about Infinity, Centrum, the Cabal...

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Let me more succinctly stat my issue.

Assuming higher tiers within Centrum manage lower tiers then there must always be more lower tiers then higher to necessitate the number of higher tiers needed to assure order.

So you can't justify Tier ones being treated poorly do to lack of merit when their are other factors that can denie them elevated status.
Unless low levels of rank aren't actually about commanding people until the upper levels -- that's quite doable (grade 1 and 2 means you aren't as valued, grade 3 commands nothing be respect, and the pyramid starts at grade 4) -- but the way centrum is statted out (using rank) doesn't reflect that. It reflects a cold world with a large underclass and where the only way to get ahead in life is to be good at ordering others around.

Part of the trick is centrum isn't particularly well defined.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:54 AM   #28
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Default Re: Question about Infinity, Centrum, the Cabal...

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Originally Posted by Minuteman37 View Post
Let me more succinctly stat my issue.

Assuming higher tiers within Centrum manage lower tiers then there must always be more lower tiers then higher to necessitate the number of higher tiers needed to assure order.

So you can't justify Tier ones being treated poorly do to lack of merit when their are other factors that can denie them elevated status.
Sure they can. "If you'd worked harder and smarter, you would have gotten one of the openings this year. But if you do work harder and smarter than anyone else next year, you can get one of the openings next year". There. Justified. I actually doubt that long term level ones outnumber level twos since they can rely on indentures to hand the bulk of the scutwork. That everyone starts at level one is the equivalent of "starting in the mail room" but the mail room employees don't outnumber the rest of the corporation. Even so, yes the majority will die never having progressed more than halfway up the organization table. Doesn't matter because the possibility of advancement is always dangled before them, and it's a real one, even if it's a long shot after level 3 or so.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 08-08-2016 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 08-08-2016, 11:22 AM   #29
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Default Re: Question about Infinity, Centrum, the Cabal...

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Doesn't matter because the possibility of advancement is always dangled before them, and it's a real one, even if it's a long shot after level 3 or so.
I would assume this could lead to some sabotage attempts among people who are vying for sparse promotion slots. The competition could get very cutthroat, which would be a wedge Infinity would be more than willing to use. :)
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Old 08-08-2016, 11:59 AM   #30
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Default Re: Question about Infinity, Centrum, the Cabal...

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... As I said, the government is the only employer and the only provider of goods and services. Any form of capitalism is prohibited.
All that says is that Centrum has a monopoly in their timeline. It says nothing about how they carry out business.

Is the Department of Making Products expected to turn a profit?
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