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Old 06-05-2018, 05:28 AM   #811
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Well, and the point kind of is "I've played all of them." Not, "I found a perfect system and stuck to it." So whatever you're looking for in a game has not yet been satisfied by them, which means there's plenty of room still to grow.

And my point wasn't that TFT will take the world by storm necessarily, but rather that it is such a great system that it HAS taken the world by storm in the past. It's still a great system, and does everything the other "simple" games you mentioned do, but with greater consistency, less room for off-the-wall interpretations, and this despite the fact that it's a 40 year-old system.
Actually, you did use the word "perfect", which was why I used it in my response.
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Old 06-05-2018, 12:57 PM   #812
JLV
 
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Actually, you did use the word "perfect", which was why I used it in my response.
*sigh* And you thought that meant I was saying TFT was perfect? Even after reading the second part? Okay. Whatever floats your boat.
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:44 PM   #813
zot
 
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Default Re: Heal spell used once per day?

Hi Jim,

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Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
The only problem I see with such a solution is that the TFT decidedly works on a: "pay-as-you-go, for as long you can go, until you cannot pay the fare any longer" design; whereas the "one time per day" sytem is Vanician by design, and therefore antagonistic to the whole of the TFT magic system mechanical design.

Is there another solution we could find which essentially achieves the same limiting effect you desire, while working within the established mechanics of TFT?

JK
Yes, I think my priest system fits that, one heal per person per appointed time. No spell slots, points, or other bookkeeping.
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:59 PM   #814
Jim Kane
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Hi Zot,

Perhaps it does. I wish you, David Bofinger, and JLV would get together on it, and begin banging out the details. Why not send them each a PM and see if they are interested? They seem to have ideas which appear to dovetail with your current explorations.

I would be very interested to see what you three come up with as a team

JK
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Old 06-05-2018, 06:09 PM   #815
JLV
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

You know, honestly I'm not sure how much help zot actually NEEDS on this at this point.

I'm guessing David and I could provide an intelligent review of what he's got, but I suspect anyone else on this site could essentially do the same thing. Our only real "advantage" in David and I doing such a thing is that we all have the same overarching goal in mind -- getting there is where the rubber meets the road, though.

So here's what I'll say/do: Zot, if you want me to take a look at things and offer input, I'd be happy to do so. When doing so, I will try to keep in mind that it's your idea and system, and that if I want to design my own, I should do so rather than trying to force you to design the system *I* want. Having said that, I will do more than just "blue pencil it." I will question you on your premises, ask for clearer explanations, suggest different wording, probably argue with you some, and generally do what I can to make your ideas as clear to me (and, presumably, others) as I can. But only if you actually WANT me to do all of that, okay?

Anyway, let me know.
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Old 06-05-2018, 06:59 PM   #816
David Bofinger
 
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Default Re: Heal spell used once per day?

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[...] TFT decidedly works on a: "pay-as-you-go, for as long you can go, until you cannot pay the fare any longer" design
Which is problematic: it encourages parties to expend their firepower and then rest, which encourages GMs to raise the firepower of the encounters to make them a challenge, until the players can't win without resting between them and now the game is mostly resting.

Or it creates a dissonance between adventures set in labyrinth-like situations, where the wizards have to hoard their strength and the fighters are strong, and on the other hand games set in the outdoors where there is the occasional encounter, where wizards can burn all their strength at each fight, and wizards are stronger than fighters.

Either way, burn-and-rest can be a problem. I generally prefer systems that don't use it. Let the heroes live in hero time, and never stop.

Quote:
[...] the "one time per day" sytem is Vanician by design
I think the definition of Vancian is one time per day, and you have to choose which abilities in advance from a list.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:32 AM   #817
Jim Kane
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Default Re: Heal spell used once per day?

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Either way, burn-and-rest can be a problem. I generally prefer systems that don't use it. Let the heroes live in hero time, and never stop.
Well, there is not a lot we can do about that one David. I like how you call it: Burn and Rest; a good compact term. It is the foundational structure on which all of the rest of the TFT Magic System is mechanically built upon; just as we are built upon two legs - that's the design we come with ;-)

Could we then also call the Vancian Magic System: Burn and Relearn, or Burn and Forget; as in Jack Vance's idea, the Magician forgets the spell after he has cast it, and must relearn it as a prepared "magic hand-grenade", held ready for future use?

And by that, could we also call TFT's Burn and Rest structure: Jacksonian Magic vs Vancian Magic?

How does everyone else feel about the tern: Jacksonian Magic; for use in our discussions? Any other takers on that one?

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 06-06-2018 at 01:06 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 06-06-2018, 04:23 AM   #818
zot
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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You know, honestly I'm not sure how much help zot actually NEEDS on this at this point.

I'm guessing David and I could provide an intelligent review of what he's got, but I suspect anyone else on this site could essentially do the same thing. Our only real "advantage" in David and I doing such a thing is that we all have the same overarching goal in mind -- getting there is where the rubber meets the road, though.

So here's what I'll say/do: Zot, if you want me to take a look at things and offer input, I'd be happy to do so. When doing so, I will try to keep in mind that it's your idea and system, and that if I want to design my own, I should do so rather than trying to force you to design the system *I* want. Having said that, I will do more than just "blue pencil it." I will question you on your premises, ask for clearer explanations, suggest different wording, probably argue with you some, and generally do what I can to make your ideas as clear to me (and, presumably, others) as I can. But only if you actually WANT me to do all of that, okay?

Anyway, let me know.
Thanks JLV, that'd be great. I'll PM you and we can coordinate on getting you commenting privileges on the doc.
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:49 AM   #819
Jim Kane
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by JLV View Post
...So here's what I'll say/do: Zot, if you want me to take a look at things and offer input, I'd be happy to do so...I will question you on your premises, ask for clearer explanations, suggest different wording, probably argue with you some, and generally do what I can to make your ideas as clear to me (and, presumably, others) as I can. But only if you actually WANT me to do all of that, okay? Anyway, let me know.
Good man JLV!

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
Thanks JLV, that'd be great. I'll PM you and we can coordinate on getting you commenting privileges on the doc.
And here is what I would be willing to do for the TFT team cause ZOT:

If you can put your concepts on Religious Magic, together with JLV's concepts on Deus ex Machina and Acts-of-God, along with David Bofinger and his concepts on Inobvious Magic, and the three of you, working together as a team, can get the whole thing boiled-down to a presentable first-draft treatment on the subject which works, and *if* you guys want my end too, then I would be willing to toss into the mix for suitability and serviceability, my work on: Sinister Cults, Abominable Rituals, and Evil Temples; as the second-stage of your project, with which to eventually round out the whole of the subject matter on: Religious Magic, Priests, and Cults on Cidri, with you all - if you feel it is wanted, would help, and you three are good with eventually creating as a four-sorcerer cabal.

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 06-06-2018 at 06:21 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 06-06-2018, 07:02 AM   #820
zot
 
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Good man JLV!

And here is what I would be willing to do for the TFT team cause ZOT:

If you can put your concepts on Religious Magic, together with JLV's concepts on Deus ex Machina and Acts-of-God, along with David Bofinger and his concepts on Inobvious Magic, and the three of you, working together as a team, can get the whole thing boiled-down to a presentable first-draft treatment on the subject which works, and *if* you guys want my end too, then I would be willing to toss into the mix for suitability and serviceability, my work on: Sinister Cults, Abominable Rituals, and Evil Temples; as the second-stage of your project, with which to eventually round out the whole of the subject matter on: Religious Magic, Priests, and Cults on Cidri, with you all - if you feel it is wanted, would help, and you three are good with eventually creating as a four-sorcerer cabal.

JK
Certainly worth looking at but I'd like to get my priest system finished and tested before trying to connect with other stuff! :)
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