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Old 09-10-2017, 05:43 PM   #11
Boomerang
 
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

ATR should be awesome, its worth 100 points!

I would not allow the wait manoeuvre tactic to work unless some special circumstances were involved. For example they had seen the ATR fighter use that method of fighting in a previous combat and made a successful tactics roll and had combat reflexes. Or if they had not met before, the character doing the wait manoeuvre had ETS. No way I would allow standard mooks to use a tactic like that.
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Old 09-10-2017, 05:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Kromm has clarified that ATR does effectively give you two turns in a row, so the All-Out Attack followed by All-Out Defense (or any other maneuver that gives you a defense) actually is valid.
Ah okay, that's nice to know.

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Originally Posted by Boomerang View Post
ATR should be awesome, its worth 100 points!

I would not allow the wait manoeuvre tactic to work unless some special circumstances were involved. For example they had seen the ATR fighter use that method of fighting in a previous combat and made a successful tactics roll and had combat reflexes. Or if they had not met before, the character doing the wait manoeuvre had ETS. No way I would allow standard mooks to use a tactic like that.
I agree here, the character who uses this should be familiar with ATR fighters; or maybe I would let them take a turn to do a Per based Tactics roll to come up with the idea during the battle.
The meta of it is much more obvious to us the players than it would be to someone fighting them, with only seconds to come up with anything on the spot under pressure.
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Old 09-10-2017, 06:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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Originally Posted by Boomerang View Post
ATR should be awesome, its worth 100 points!

t.
Great Haste costs one point.

Neither of them is Enhanced Time Sense
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Old 09-10-2017, 09:53 PM   #14
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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Great Haste costs one point.

Neither of them is Enhanced Time Sense
I was only talking about ATR, a 100 point advantage should not be so easy to invalidate. In my opinion great haste should be handled differently since the point cost is so much less. Maybe the in game justification for the difference is that being hasted is not your natural state (unlike ATR) and it is much easier to anticipate with the wait manoeuvre.
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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No way I would allow standard mooks to use a tactic like that.
If you are using those rules Wait isn't a valid option anyway.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

I have found the way normal ATR works bit annoying with that all out attack-normal attack pattern so in my house rules I use individual initiative and ATR 1 gives an extra action at half the initiative number, ATR 2 gives at 2/3 and 1/3 and so on, that gives more the feel of acting faster.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:48 AM   #17
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

Remember, if your AoD is Dodge, then you can run your entire move with AoA moving half and AoD moving half. You look like a flurry of energy running at normal speed. Honestly only the first level of ATR is fantastic. Every level after is merely great.

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Originally Posted by weby View Post
I have found the way normal ATR works bit annoying with that all out attack-normal attack pattern so in my house rules I use individual initiative and ATR 1 gives an extra action at half the initiative number, ATR 2 gives at 2/3 and 1/3 and so on, that gives more the feel of acting faster.
I had a GM run ATR like you did, but you subtract 1 from your initiative number each level for simplicity.

EDIT:
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Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
Great Haste costs one point.
Magic is stronger on all fronts. Great Haste is basically "Afflict: ATR" and should function the same other than how the spell dictates (something about losing FP?).
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:17 AM   #18
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
I have found the way normal ATR works bit annoying with that all out attack-normal attack pattern so in my house rules I use individual initiative and ATR 1 gives an extra action at half the initiative number, ATR 2 gives at 2/3 and 1/3 and so on, that gives more the feel of acting faster.
Every time someone asks why GURPS does not make speedsters harder to hit, we have to point out how AoA+AoD allows people to capitalize on defensive benefits of ATR, and you just go out and remove that tactic . . .
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:39 AM   #19
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Every time someone asks why GURPS does not make speedsters harder to hit, we have to point out how AoA+AoD allows people to capitalize on defensive benefits of ATR, and you just go out and remove that tactic . . .
It is not a very good answer anyway. Not only can waiting negate such a defense, it means that even higher levels of ATR don't further improve defenses. Also someone moving faster should be harder to successfully hit, even if he doesn't change the way he fights to take better advantage of that extra speed.

A better answer would be that a speedster should also buy better defenses to represent the fact that he is hard to hit.

Last edited by Andreas; 09-11-2017 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:46 AM   #20
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Default Re: Altered time rate /Great Haste question.

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Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
It is not a very good answer anyway. Not only can waiting negate such a defense, it means that even higher levels of ATR don't further improve defenses. Also someone moving faster should be harder to successfully hit, even if he doesn't change the way he fights to take better advantage of that extra speed.

A better answer would be that a speedster should also buy better defenses to represent the fact that he is hard to hit.
Then the question will be 'what does ATR represent?'. Because if it represent doing all the same things faster, then it would be weird for it not to affect the chance to evade at all. This answer is a middle ground compromise between piecemeal purchases (buy what you want to have) and logical consequences of the effects the trait represents.
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