Cheat Like There's No Tomorrow clarifications

[smoothhands]

1. I am assuming this works with the same general mechanics as the other Cheat cards in that they don't allow you to equip items during a battle. Thus, to use the Cheat Like There's No Tomorrow card, you have to kind of do it "blindly" before you enter a battle. Is this correct, or can you use it during a battle as well?
2. Say you are a Human with both your hands full of other items. Then you use a CLTNT with an Elf-only weapon and a regular 1-handed weapon. After the battle, do you throw both items away, or just the Elf-only one, since technically it is possible (after some item shuffling) to use the regular 1-handed weapon?

[aeronaut]

Without the exact text of CLTNT in front of me, my understanding is that any item that you use by using CLTNT that you couldn't have had equipped without CLTNT is at risk of being lost. It doesn't allow you to put items from your hand into play (AFAIK,) but allows you to take items in play that are not equipped and to equip them and use them for the battle when you play CLTNT.

Regards,
aeronaut

[Andrew Hackard]

I'm going to have to look at this card more closely. Poke me in a couple of days if I haven't gotten to it. However, I'm not sure where you've found a ruling that Cheat! does not allow you to play an Item during a fight; can someone with better Search Fu point me to a source?

[thedag]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

I'm going to have to look at this card more closely. Poke me in a couple of days if I haven't gotten to it. However, I'm not sure where you've found a ruling that Cheat! does not allow you to play an Item during a fight; can someone with better Search Fu point me to a source?

Well I haven't found anything although our group assumed that seem as you can't normally change items during combat that cheat would not allow you to do so. Seemed logical to us so we went with it. Perhaps the other poster made the same assumption?

[smoothhands]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

I'm going to have to look at this card more closely. Poke me in a couple of days if I haven't gotten to it. However, I'm not sure where you've found a ruling that Cheat! does not allow you to play an Item during a fight; can someone with better Search Fu point me to a source?

I'm going off this reply from MunchkinMan back in August 2010 which said:

You can't change the Items you are using during combat. End of story. This means that you don't change your layout during combat. I don't care at this point what the rules say about how to arrange your Items because the rules about changing Items during combat supersede that information.

If you lose/change your Race/Class/Loyalty/Accent/gender while in combat, you can still use something like Cheat! or restore that lost/changed character aspect to use those Items you suddenly lost the bonuses from. What you can't do is turn those Items sideways to indicate you aren't using them anymore. Doing something like that would allow you to play HMOH to take and play a new Item in place of one of the Items you currently put down.

And, yes, Andrew and I are of a like mind on this because this is all actually based on an old ruling of mine.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, this means you can't use Cheat to begin using an item during combat, because no language on the card supercedes the rule against doing so. The only case where it does something like that is when you were already using it going into the battle but then lost it due to losing the Race/Class/etc. that let you use it in the first place. But if you simply had it on the table turned sideways, and thus not being used/equipped/wielded/insert-verb-meaning-"Not turned sideways"-here, it seems like a normal Cheat card at least would not let you now play one or more unused items when you're in the middle of a battle. As for the Cheat Like No Tomorrow...

[Grax]

CLTNT is not a cheat card. It is a one use item (which says usable once) which allows you to use it during a combat.

With this card being a one shot card, the assumption would be that it is as the card states, enter battle, play this card, and for that combat have all of the items.

Our groups understanding of card's implied intent is that it is a one use item that gives you the ability to "use" the items for that combat. This appears to be an instance where the card overrules the rules.

That has been our understanding.

[smoothhands]

Originally Posted by Grax

CLTNT is not a cheat card. It is a one use item (which says usable once) which allows you to use it during a combat.

With this card being a one shot card, the assumption would be that it is as the card states, enter battle, play this card, and for that combat have all of the items.

Our groups understanding of card's implied intent is that it is a one use item that gives you the ability to "use" the items for that combat. This appears to be an instance where the card overrules the rules.

That has been our understanding.

I agree that it should be playable during a combat, such as with the situation I described in which equipped items lose their usability/bonuses due to loss of Race or whatever. The main problem is that the card doesn't explicitly overrule the rule about being able to equip or unequip items during battle.

[Andrew Hackard]

Now that I'm reading the text of Cheat Like There's No Tomorrow, I can't see any ambiguity. It's a one-shot Treasure card (but not an Item, since it has nothing at all printed for its Gold Piece value) that says:

For one combat only, you may use any and all items you possess, regardless of Hands, race or class restrictions, or anything else.

Cards in your hand are not "Items you possess," and so Cheat Like There's No Tomorrow doesn't allow you to bring them into play.

[smoothhands]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

Now that I'm reading the text of Cheat Like There's No Tomorrow, I can't see any ambiguity. It's a one-shot Treasure card (but not an Item, since it has nothing at all printed for its Gold Piece value) that says:


Cards in your hand are not "Items you possess," and so Cheat Like There's No Tomorrow doesn't allow you to bring them into play.

I'm not wondering whether it should let you place down onto the table Items that were in your hand at the beginning of the battle; I'm only talking about ones on the table but turned sideways as of the start of the battle. Does the card have to be played before a battle, thereby allowing you to turn all your sideways Item cards "right side up", or can it also be played in the middle of a battle, turning all your sideways Item cards "right side up"?

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by smoothhands

I'm not wondering whether it should let you place down onto the table Items that were in your hand at the beginning of the battle; I'm only talking about ones on the table but turned sideways as of the start of the battle.

I apologize for misreading your question, then.

Originally Posted by smoothhands

Does the card have to be played before a battle, thereby allowing you to turn all your sideways Item cards "right side up", or can it also be played in the middle of a battle, turning all your sideways Item cards "right side up"?

You may play Cheat Like There's No Tomorrow during the fight. After all, there would be no way for you to know before the fight if you needed to play it. It essentially turns all your carried-but-not-used Items into one-shots, which you may play or not as needed. At the end of the fight, you must discard the Items you played that you cannot legally use.

The Items that you were using when you started the fight stay in use; you can't choose to ditch them in favor of one of the Items you used with CLTNT. I think the easiest way to keep this distinction separate is to put the Items you are CLTNTing on top of that card, rather than just changing their facing, so you know you have to discard them at the end of the fight.

An example may make this clearer. Say you're wearing the Slimy Armor and have Flaming Armor in play but not equipped (so, played sideways). If you play Cheat Like There's No Tomorrow, you can bring the Flaming Armor into the fight, but it then goes away once the fight is over. You can change its facing if you want, but putting the Flaming Armor card on top of CLTNT will make it clear that it has to be discarded.

Please let me know if this has helped, or if you're still confused.