+4 Against Males

[Signboy]

I thought that I had seen a similar question asked, but this came up in my last game of Munchkin, and I tried to find the thread, but couldn't. At any rate, here goes:

We were playing Munchkin with the UA expansion, I kicked in the door and drew a monster (I believe it was the Moon Maidens) which had a +4 combat bonus against males. Since I am a male and had not changed sex, the monster had this penalty against me. At that point I was unable to defeat the monster. My question is this:

If I ask for help, and another male player helps me with combat, does the monster get an additional +4? In other words, is it a +4 for each male in combat, or +4 for any males in combat?

[MunchkinMan]

As is stated in the rules:

Originally Posted by The Rules

But if you are facing the Drooling Slime and an Elf helps you, the monster’s combat strength is increased by 4 (unless you, too, are an Elf and the monster’s combat strength has already been increased).

[aeronaut]

Further, just to be clear on this, if you ask for help from a female, the +4 bonus against males will still apply, since you're still in the combat. The only way for it to go away is if there are no more males left in the combat (transferal potion, change sex curse, etc. Although the change sex curse won't allow you to win the combat directly, as the monster will lose the +4, but you'll be -5 in your first combat, unless you have the freudian slippers.)

Regards,
aeronaut

[ReverendSmeg]

I think (I could be wrong, please correct me if I am) that what the OP is asking is:

I am male.

I am in combat against a thing that has a +4 against males.

I ask for, and get, help from another male.

Does the thing now have +8 (+4 for each male in combat)?

Or does the thing have +4, because it is fighting males (no stacking combat bonuses)?

If *I* were playing, I'd say it's still at +4 even if the entire vienna boy's choir is playing and they all help you, but then I am not an Official Munchkin Person(tm).

[MunchkinMan]

Yes, that is what he was asking and it was answered, officially, by me pointing to a rules quote which stated that you are correct, the Amazon only gets +4.

[aeronaut]

ReverendSmeg does correctly point out that neither Erik nor I completely addressed that aspect of the question in a clear and unambiguous manner. So:

If a monster states that they have a bonus against a specific race, class, gender, or anything else, that bonus applies if there are one or more of the specific race, class, gender, etc., in the combat. It is not cumulative. Of course, if the specific monster's card has wording to the contrary, that would take priority over this ruling, as the rules state that stuff on cards overrules stuff in the rules.

In short, Moon maidens fights male, get +4. Moon maidens fights male with male helper, get +4. Hope that covers the issue completely.

And as a final note, if the thief uses the backstab ability to interfere with combat, the thief can backstab both the main combatant, and the helper, giving two penalties, but must discard 2 cards to do so. This is different from affecting a side of combat, it's affecting a munchkin, and the rules spell that out clearly as well.

The interesting (and related) question to me is suppose a female gnome is fighting the moon maidens (not sure if this is possible, don't have the card in front of me,) and uses the illusion power to have a Male Chauvinist Pig help her with the combat. I think technically, the moon maidens would get no bonus, since the MCP is a monster and not a male munchkin, but spiritually, the maidens should get the +4. How about an official ruling on that one? (I'm pretty sure it's no bonus.)

Regards,
aeronaut