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Old 02-24-2015, 10:15 PM   #11
doulos05
 
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Default Re: Bare Bones Basic - Combat

Also, the biggest thing missing for GURPS is a clear, quick, concise NPC Stat block that's easy to use and visually appealing.

Consider this example from D&D. At a glance, I can find every relevant stat. In contrast, finding relevant stats in the text-only stat blocks of GURPS isn't so straight forward. If the attack is a power, it's under advantages. But if it's a weapon, it's under equipment or in the character description paragraph above (See "Lair of the Fat Man for an example of what I'm talking about). I think a clear NPC character stat block would go miles towards making GURPS combat more appealing.
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:27 PM   #12
simply Nathan
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Default Re: Bare Bones Basic - Combat

You can also simplify away most of the melee weapon table.

Small weapons, like hatchets, daggers, and unarmed strikes get -1 to damage.

Two-handed weapons get +1 to damage.

Unbalanced weapons get +2 to damage.

Other than that, just use thr or sw damage as appropriate to the mode of attack and damage type as appropriate to its striking surface.

Some worked examples being:

Dagger. Thr-1 imp or thr-1 cut.

Hatchet. Sw+1 cut.

Mace. Sw+2 cr.

Spear. Thr imp one-handed, thr+1 imp two-handed.

Arming Sword. Sw cut or thr imp.

Longsword. As Arming Sword, but may optionally be wielded two-handed for +1 damage.

Greataxe. Sw+3 cut. Two-handed.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bare Bones Basic - Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook View Post
"How to Be a GURPS GM" takes a stab at this on pp. 41-42, so that's my version of the spectrum. But it is an extremely subjective thing -- I think any five GMs will have five different breakdowns.
Mook is being modest. How to Be a GURPS GM, pp. 41-42 is the definitive word on the subject. It breaks down all the combat options with page references—precisely the information the original poster needs.
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: Bare Bones Basic - Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook View Post
"How to Be a GURPS GM" takes a stab at this on pp. 41-42, so that's my version of the spectrum. But it is an extremely subjective thing -- I think any five GMs will have five different breakdowns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Joy View Post
Mook is being modest. How to Be a GURPS GM, pp. 41-42 is the definitive word on the subject. It breaks down all the combat options with page references—precisely the information the original poster needs.
::FLIP FLIP FLIP FLIP FLIP:::

Well Ill be....

There it is in black and white folks!

Sorry Mook! I actually purchased this a few months back and havent had the oportunity to give it the long slow read it deserves!

That said, I agree that its not the ONLY way to break those down, AND I also like the suggestions for simplifying the equipment list and skill set for running Combat that is interesting, but still quick and clearly resolving.


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Old 02-25-2015, 08:47 AM   #15
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Default Re: Bare Bones Basic - Combat

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Originally Posted by doulos05 View Post
A lot of it is the GM pre-calculating things.

Give a ranged weapon 2 ACC stats. The ACC stat from 0-1/2D and the ACC stat from 1/2D to max (the first band is the unmodified ACC stat, the second band is ACC-range penalty for 1/2D). Now you've pre-calculated the effect of range and only have to worry about speed. If unmodified ACC is too generous, take the median penalty for each range band.

If a player likes to use slam attacks (Shield bashes, for example) figure the damage using 75% of his move as the velocity and use that all the time. Then simply declare he has to move that many hexes or more to charge (D&D does that, or at least it did in the versions I played. If you wanted to slam, you had to move straight forward a certain number of hexes).

Pre-calculate the weapons for each character in case they pick them up.
Precalculating isnt simplyfying. Sure it will definately speed things up, but what would you change to eliminate those calculations entirely?

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Old 02-25-2015, 02:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bare Bones Basic - Combat

Come to think of it, I actually did this in my campaign but forgot to mention it here.
I made weapon proficiency skill groups:
WP-Blades (knife, sword), WP-Impact (club, axe), WP-Longshaft (spear, polearm), WP-Entangle (whip, lasso), WP: Fighting, WP:Grappling, all DX/A.
You can take the "specialized" DX/E versions for a few specific weapons, and the rest of the WP defaults to it at -3: Knives, Clubs, Staff, Punch.

I have an extra thing for specialized weapons (rapier, flails) as a technique at -3, but this is getting complicated again.

Ranged is Archery (bow, crossbow), Thrown (knife, sling), Guns (all types); specialties are Crossbow and Light (<1 lb.)
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:32 PM   #17
simply Nathan
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Default Re: Bare Bones Basic - Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchonShiva View Post
Come to think of it, I actually did this in my campaign but forgot to mention it here.
I made weapon proficiency skill groups:
WP-Blades (knife, sword), WP-Impact (club, axe), WP-Longshaft (spear, polearm), WP-Entangle (whip, lasso), WP: Fighting, WP:Grappling, all DX/A.
You can take the "specialized" DX/E versions for a few specific weapons, and the rest of the WP defaults to it at -3: Knives, Clubs, Staff, Punch.

I have an extra thing for specialized weapons (rapier, flails) as a technique at -3, but this is getting complicated again.

Ranged is Archery (bow, crossbow), Thrown (knife, sling), Guns (all types); specialties are Crossbow and Light (<1 lb.)
I instead shortened it to 9 combat skills: Unarmed, Knife, Sword, Hafted(axe/mace and some polearms), Spear (including staff and some polearms), Flail (including whip), Shield, Archery (all missile weapons including slings and blowguns) and Throwing. Unarmed, Knife, and Shield are Easy, Archery and Flail are Hard, the rest are Average.

I sometimes consider dropping Shield from the skill list and making "Shield Proficient" a Perk instead, but I think Enhanced Block would be too expensive as the only way to improve blocking and wouldn't feel comfortable tossing out shield bashes as a valid mode of attack.
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:16 AM   #18
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Default Re: Bare Bones Basic - Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nymdok View Post
Precalculating isnt simplyfying. Sure it will definately speed things up, but what would you change to eliminate those calculations entirely?

Nymdok
Pre-calculating is simplifying for the player (all the time) and the GM (at the table). I should be clear that I'm assuming the GM knows GURPS. If the GM knows the system, then having him precalculate everything and write it out for the player most certainly is simplifying the interface for the person most likely to need the simplification (ie, the new player).

Besides, even that other game has calculations. I think the thing (in every game) that makes it feel complicated is math at the table. It's not a trivial task to figure out the Caster level of multi-classed caster or to add in all the of the modifiers from feats and special attack modifiers for an attack on the fly. But nobody playing that other game does that. They write it all out on the character sheet when they first make the character, then they just update the sheet when something changes. In GURPS, on the other hand, you have to calculate slam damage every time (because your velocity probably isn't the same every time). You have have to calculate the exact range penalty every time because it's exact instead of in broad range rands. You have to calculate weapon damage for each weapon. Now, none of those require difficult math, and in fact the last two are simple table look-ups. But they feel complex because you'd never have to do that in that other game.

GURPS combat is not any more complex than D&D combat when you add in the special attacks, magical effects, grapples, etc, etc. But it is more calculation-heavy and it's more detailed, which makes it seem complex. D&D front-loads the math to put the tactics front and center. GURPS doesn't because it let's you game the math more granularly (just how big a penalty are you willing to take to accomplish x?) and that enriches the tactics. But they're both complex.
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:06 AM   #19
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Default Re: Bare Bones Basic - Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos05 View Post
Pre-calculating is simplifying for the player (all the time) and the GM (at the table). I should be clear that I'm assuming the GM knows GURPS. If the GM knows the system, then having him precalculate everything and write it out for the player most certainly is simplifying the interface for the person most likely to need the simplification (ie, the new player).
Im looking at ways of making there 'less for the GM to know' or 'less for the GM to apply' or 'less to precalculate'.

We talk often about how GURPS can be as simple or granular as you like and Im looking at a way to scale the intricacy and difficulty of combat in a way similar to what Mook did so that when groups sit down, combat can move faste, easier and more intuitively with less understanding.

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