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Old 02-03-2015, 12:46 AM   #1
Bronco
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Default Brought into combat // carried items argument needs resolution!

So during a game of munchkin a large (game appropriate) issue was raised regarding two different questions and how they affected the same problem.

Question 1 was: Are you allowed to "unequip" ALL items you are currently 'carrying' on the table // or do you have to fill available equipment slots with usable items. (Ex. You have a 1 handed sword with no restrictions and no other hand items, are you allowed to simply not occupy that item slot.)

Question 2 was: When you are brought into combat unwillingly by a card like "Bond by talking about sports" or similar effects, are you allowed to change your load out to affect your power level. For example if I bring a player in with bond and he decides to un-equip all of his items to reduce his bonus to just his level 'before' he enters combat with me as in the above question and the circumstance which caused this argument.

A footnote question would be whether combat is a 'blanket' state and does not allow other players to change their equipment in any way while it is occurring.

*Currently we have reached the house rule that you can not change your load out while a combat is occurring but may un-equip any amount of carried items before a door is kicked and combat occurs or someone looks for trouble.
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:22 AM   #2
Bronco
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Default Re: Brought into combat // carried items argument needs resolution!

Some additional things that came up in the argument included the vague descriptions in the rule books that we thoroughly went through that relate to or address the issues. Some of these things were more obscurely written than others but there was reasonable doubt for the following statements:

1. From the core set rules: "An item card in your hand does not count until you play it; at that point it is carried." ( still doesn't say whether you have to use it or can just have it on the table)

2. "You should indicate items that can't help you, or extras not being worn, by turning the cards sideways" ( again doesn't specify if you can simply 'turn' usable, non-restricted, or items that you have an excess of sideways and not use the slot)

3. "While you are in combat, you cannot sell, steal, equip, unequip, or trade items, or play items (except for one-shots) from your hand. Once you expose a monster card, you must resolve the fight with your equipment as it stands, plus any one-shot items you choose to play" ( does not provide any information on whether bringing someone into combat is treated as if they are in combat as well and can or cannot change their equipped items before you do so)

4.
"Q. If I use my Bond By Talking About Sports power on another munchkin to force him to help me in combat, what happens if I'm cursed with a Sex Change? Does the other munchkin still have to help me?
A. Yes. As with other discard-to-use abilities, the effect happens as soon as you activate it. If something changes after you "pay" the cost, it will not retroactively change the effect that already happened."

( the closest thing we found to a response regarding the effect, supports the specific case of paying the cost and not allowing the other player to respond but it still does not say he's not allowed to modify before entering the combat as it can be interpreted to say the effect is only bringing the person in no matter what and not saying they cannot change before they are in combat as well.)
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:36 AM   #3
Mister Ed
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Brought into combat // carried items argument needs resolution!

It is definitely legal to deliberately unequip all your stuff when it is not your turn, which I sometimes do specifically to make myself less attractive for these sorts of forced helping.

However, once the card has been played (or ability of a card already in play has been used) that forces you to help, you are in the combat, and you cannot change whether you are using stuff at that point.
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Old 02-03-2015, 07:57 AM   #4
MunchkinMan
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Macungie, PA
Default Re: Brought into combat // carried items argument needs resolution!

On page 2 of the rules, there is a callout box entitled "When You May Take Actions," which says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rules
You may perform these actions at any time, as long as you are not in combat:
  • Trade an Item with another player (the other player may not be in combat, either).
  • Change which Items you have equipped.
  • Play a card that you have just received (some cards may be played even during combat; see above).
Now, I added some emphasis, but hopefully that will negate any vagueness detected in the rules later because the direct statement was made earlier.

However, once you're brought into combat by another player, it's too late to do anything. Munchkin works on a simple instantaneous timing mechanic: Once an effect has come into play, resolve that effect before moving on. There are a few exceptions, but those are exceptions because the cards that can cancel or reverse something say, very specifically, that they do just that.

Also, you do not have to fill a "slot," like Armor, just because you have an Item that would go into it.

I would like to bring all strategy discussion to a close right now, since that's outside the purpose of the Munchkin 101 forum, which is for asking basic rules questions. If you want to continue strategy discussion, take it to the Munchkin forum, or I'll just move this thread there.
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