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Old 08-10-2010, 10:37 AM   #41
Daigoro
 
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
I meant to say: if you have an onset time of 1 hour on your summonable monkey, but there is a monkey standing 10 meter away, it would be ridiculous to have him take 1 hour to get to you.
So, i was suggesting halving onset cost to represent that the onset time was a maximum time, not a fixed time.
Thinking about it, you can also have onset at full cost, and treat the time as an average. Sometimes less, sometimes more.

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Sounds much like how the Environmental limitation works.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:33 AM   #42
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

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Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
And we're back to it being GM's call for something that is usually a fixed feature of such abilities in fictional sources, and makes a real difference to their actual utility... as a GM, I'd like to be able to say that Angel Summoner's ability is worth more points than Thundermonkey's, even apart from how powerful the Allies themselves are.
Maybe add a technique in there.

Tactical Summoning
Default: Religious Ritual or Thaumatology -3 Hard
Prerequisites:Religious Ritual or Thaumatology; Cannot exceed Default Skill.
You have developed the knack of pushing a summoning to the area you want it to be. In a combat situation you may use one of the default skills as if it were the Tactics skill to determine where the summoned ally appears. See the rules on using Tactics to determine advantageous positioning.

In DF terms that might look like " Tactical Summoning [5] " Four points for the "technique" and one point for the perk.

---

Or placement of the ally can depend on a Reaction Roll where the descriptor doesn't refer to reaction, but to advantageous... ness. Then Magery or Power Invesiture or whatever can add to it and improve how the summoning works.

---

Or give it Ranged to put a bit more control over it. Then add Accurate or Inacurate as you see fit.
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Old 08-10-2010, 01:14 PM   #43
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

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Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
Barring Sanctity levels, what does it matter to summoning a demon (or an angel) whether you're in jungle, forest, mountain, plains, or underground? Or for any planar summons, other than maybe elementals liking their own element?
Whem I was speaking of environment and environmentals, I was talking about the types of local features that might affect a summoning rather than terrain types. Sanctity for Holy Warriors, Wildness for druidic allies, presence of flame or heat for fire elementals, that sort of thing. If you are summoning your alternate self from Earth 2, then those things probably are not a concern.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:07 PM   #44
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

For what it's worth, I basically defined Summonable as "One Second of Concentrate, Ally shows up at the end of the turn, Ally doesn't take any action until it's Basic Speed next comes up in the turn order, arrival cannot be hindered or prevented barring another limitation such as a power modifier" the minute I read all the waffling about arrival time in Powers, and the Environmental limitation.

Allies that can be summoned and arrive instantly, but take more effort to conjure than one second of Concentrate are usually limited with things like Takes Extra Time or Preparation Required (usually Immediate).

Allies that take longer to arrive but can't be blocked have Onset (Variable Onset is based on average Onset). Allies that take longer to arrive based on various conditions have either a Power modifier, or Environmental, both of which can result in blocking conditions. Accessability may be relevant too.

Allies that can be "summoned" via an unblockable 100% reliable method, but have to use normal methods to reach (or contact) the PC after being alerted via the unblockable method have some very much lesser version of Summonable. I'm thinking +20% or so. This covers Allies that have spent the points on travel abilities like Warp, or communication abilities like Telesend, or even just Wealth to hop on a jet plane or pick up a phone.

And normal allies need to be contacted the boring normal way (using whatever's on both your character sheets) and they show up the boring normal way (using same resources).

Summonable Allies do NOT need anything special on their character sheet to be summoned (or dismissed). PCs that have things like Telesend and Afflict (Malediction: infinite range; Warp) probably don't need Summonable on their Allies either, as they can just make them show up.
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:55 PM   #45
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

I am sure most of us would have happily kept assuming a one second activation were it not for that paragraph in Powers (p41). Maybe that part is supposed to be treated as an option according to the GM's discretion.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:39 PM   #46
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but I wanted to cover the next step.

So, let's say Jondar the cleric has a holy servant ally that he rolls 12 or less to have show up.

One fine morning Jondar turns from a great breakfast, goes into meditation and then rolls an 11 and voila his holy servant ally arrives. Th ally puts on the armor and weapons Jondar so thoughtfully provides for him, and then the two stride forward into the rising sun and for the next 10 years (until the ally is unfortunately slain by a demon) the two have many wonderful adventures together....

For the life of me, I can't find anywhere in the rules where this is forbidden! There seems to be no time limit on how long a summoned ally can hang around, and when I follow RPK's advice that the ally "stays until dismissed", what sane PC would ever dismiss his ally once he's been summoned?

Is this a good place to put the "Maximum Duration" limitation in Powers into play? I'm continuing to build some powers for my clerics, and I know my PCs will take advantage of this situation...

Last edited by thom; 08-16-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:46 PM   #47
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

Technically, abilities of powers use the default time for all advantages that lack specified durations: 10 seconds (p. B101). In this case, a minute seems fairer.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:43 AM   #48
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thom View Post
Sorry for the thread necromancy, but I wanted to cover the next step.

So, let's say Jondar the cleric has a holy servant ally that he rolls 12 or less to have show up // and then the two stride forward into the rising sun and for the next 10 years (until the ally is unfortunately slain by a demon) the two have many wonderful adventures together....

For the life of me, I can't find anywhere in the rules where this is forbidden! There seems to be no time limit on how long a summoned ally can hang around, and when I follow RPK's advice that the ally "stays until dismissed", what sane PC would ever dismiss his ally once he's been summoned?

Is this a good place to put the "Maximum Duration" limitation in Powers into play? I'm continuing to build some powers for my clerics, and I know my PCs will take advantage of this situation...
Technically, abilities of powers use the default time for all advantages that lack specified durations: 10 seconds (p. B101). In this case, a minute seems fairer.
What?!? 1 minute? that turns Summonable from a from a major Enhancement to a extreme Limitation! Frex, if my Brother is an Ally, Then If I want him to come plunder the ruins of Ko'Tar with me I give him a call - on a 12 or less, his wife says its okay, and my ally will accompany me for that adventure. That costs 10 points. On The Other Hand, If I make it part of my character concept that I have a Ring of Little Brother Summoning, I hold the ring towards the heavens, chant my magic word and concentrate - on a 12 or less the power of the ring allows my brother to assist on the adventure for 1 minute. This costs 20 points?

I've always played Summonable to work at the same duration as a regular ally, since it doesn't say it affects the duration. So, the Ally is summoned for the duration of the adventure - which admittedly may need GM interpretation, depending on the campaign, especially in DF when you can rest 8 hours 100 times before completing a mega-dungeon, but I would say 12-24hrs would be a minimum fairness. Or 5 hours + Frequency of Appearance Target in hours - so, "On a 6 or less" would be 11hours, "On a 15 or less" would be 20 hours, etc. Dismissed and re-summoned as normal.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:01 AM   #49
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Technically, abilities of powers use the default time for all advantages that lack specified durations: 10 seconds (p. B101). In this case, a minute seems fairer.
This seems counterintuitive enough to me to warrant a FAQ entry or even errata in GURPS Powers and GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 5 and 9, which IIRC give the duration as "until dismissed".
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:04 AM   #50
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Default Re: [DF] Summoned allies questions:

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What?!? 1 minute?
1 minute is the basic assumed time for one combat, near enough. Obviously most are shorter, and some can be longer, but when something says "once per combat" it often is built with "once per minute" as its time limit - thus in long combat scenes it does reset.

Of cause, for a summonable ally, nothing stops you just re-summoning them whenever you need them - like, say, at the start of the next combat. Plus, its only a "technically the rules say this" answer - it can easily be invoked to prevent a player from rolling once and never dismissing, but nothing stops you overlooking it for players who play fair.
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