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Old 08-03-2012, 04:50 AM   #1
JCurwen3
 
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Default Does Higher Purpose Add to Damage?

Just quick clarification: it says +1 to all die rolls. Does this include damage rolls?

I think no, but would like some confirmation. Also, if the answer happens to be yes, how might this be scaled? For instance, for a ST 1000 warrior that does loads and loads of dice of damage, +1 is sort of nothing, and more importantly, for a mouse-sized character with maybe even fractional ST, it'd seem grossly excessive. Of course, ignore this question if the answer is "no" like I think it might be.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: Does Higher Purpose Add to Damage?

I can't find any mention of damage rolls being exempted from the Higher Purpose bonus. In fact, the Mortal Foe power-up (DF3:40) explicitly mentions damage as a roll that benefits. Of course, that's in DF, so might be genre-specific... but lacking any general prohibition I think it's indicative of the intent. It's also not limited to ST-based weapons; a cinematic gunman could benefit from it too.

Higher Purpose would be just a flat bonus, rather than per-die. Yes, this means it is (relatively speaking) more useful to low-ST characters than high-ST, and makes it pretty inconsequential for most firearms and explosives. It's a highly cinematic trait, so I don't think that's really a problem.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:34 AM   #3
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Default Re: Does Higher Purpose Add to Damage?

I'll say yes, in the optic of a Demon Slayer who receive bonus on DMG when fighting a demon. But if someone have "Defend woman" (as the exemple), he'll receive the bonus damage ONLY if a woman is directly involve... and having a woman in the team IS NOT part of the Higher Purpose for she's part of the team and not "a woman in danger".
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Does Higher Purpose Add to Damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
Just quick clarification: it says +1 to all die rolls. Does this include damage rolls?

I think no, but would like some confirmation. Also, if the answer happens to be yes, how might this be scaled? For instance, for a ST 1000 warrior that does loads and loads of dice of damage, +1 is sort of nothing, and more importantly, for a mouse-sized character with maybe even fractional ST, it'd seem grossly excessive. Of course, ignore this question if the answer is "no" like I think it might be.
For a mouse sized character, 5 points buys a 1d crushing innate attack, just like it does for the ST 1000 warrior. Some damage bonuses scale in GURPS, but absent some really clever work with ability defintions, they're things that can only be used with ST-based damage.

Technically, you'd even be able to claim the damage bonus from Higher Purpose: Demonslayer when dropping an anvil on a demon, throwing a grenade at a demon, or firing a LAW at a demon.

The significant part of higher purpose is the generic floating skill bonus. The damage is just a fiddly little gravy add-on, and should not be scaled with damage dice dealt lest the advantage become seriously overpowered for the price.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: Does Higher Purpose Add to Damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
Just quick clarification: it says +1 to all die rolls. Does this include damage rolls?

I think no, but would like some confirmation. Also, if the answer happens to be yes, how might this be scaled?
I'd say all die rolls includes success, reaction, and damage rolls. Since it doesn't say it scales, the natural interpretation would be that it doesn't, though having a modifier usually stated as +1 scaling up as +1 per two full dice has some precedent, and might be reasonable.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: Does Higher Purpose Add to Damage?

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[H]aving a modifier usually stated as +1 scaling up as +1 per two full dice has some precedent, and might be reasonable.
As Bruno mentioned, scaling the damage is almost certainly going to far. Higher Purpose is just [5] cp per level. A flat bonus is fine, but a per-die (or per-two-dice) bonus makes it too potent for what it costs. Just think of it like adding Fine or Very Fine quality to your weapon - a helpful boost, but not a game-changer.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:37 AM   #7
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Default Re: Does Higher Purpose Add to Damage?

Higher Purpose is supposed to affect all rolls pertaining to the Purpose – success, damage, reaction, and anything else that crops up (e.g., the 1d for initiative on p. B393). Where it affects damage . . . sure, +1 is lots more to somebody who rolls 1d-5 than to somebody who rolls 100d, but then it's lots less to a foe with 1,000 HP than to one with 1 HP. Which is the fairer metric? It's best for damage bonuses to be absolute and let the chips fall where they may.

The way Higher Purpose is treated in DF is generous and a touch "cinematic," but not in what types of rolls it affects. The actual changes are allowing very broad Purposes, weakning or removing the code that must be obeyed to claim the bonus, and extending the option to buy three levels. It amounts to a way to buy up to +3 against common foes without much more restriction than hunting down those foes, which you would do anyway if you were a delver going into a demon- and undead-filled pit.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Does Higher Purpose Add to Damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Higher Purpose is supposed to affect all rolls pertaining to the Purpose – success, damage, reaction, and anything else that crops up (e.g., the 1d for initiative on p. B393). Where it affects damage . . . sure, +1 is lots more to somebody who rolls 1d-5 than to somebody who rolls 100d, but then it's lots less to a foe with 1,000 HP than to one with 1 HP. Which is the fairer metric? It's best for damage bonuses to be absolute and let the chips fall where they may.

The way Higher Purpose is treated in DF is generous and a touch "cinematic," but not in what types of rolls it affects. The actual changes are allowing very broad Purposes, weakning or removing the code that must be obeyed to claim the bonus, and extending the option to buy three levels. It amounts to a way to buy up to +3 against common foes without much more restriction than hunting down those foes, which you would do anyway if you were a delver going into a demon- and undead-filled pit.
Thanks for answering!

The reason why I thought (still think) the bonus to damage should scale is because it seems to me that a member of a bigger / stronger or a smaller / weaker race should have the same relative benefits to us.

A human with a common / mundane Higher Purpose coming from a society of humans will often be getting these bonuses against other humans, or, depending on the setting, similarly sized beings. That will be +1 dmg, or, on average, 1/10 of human HP.

A creature from a race with 1 HP average will mostly use the bonuses vs others of its kind. +1 dmg will be 1/1 of their average HP. It gets worse if you have a truly mixed scale campaign, and you use fractional HP and ST, where creatures may actually have less than 1 HP, or do less than 1 dmg per any ST-powered unarmed attack.

There's also giants, and how they're really not getting the same benefits as human scaled creatures vs one another. Less important than the ant that gets insta-kill punch damage vs other ants if they are following their Higher Purpose, but still.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: Does Higher Purpose Add to Damage?

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Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
Thanks for answering!

The reason why I thought (still think) the bonus to damage should scale is because it seems to me that a member of a bigger / stronger or a smaller / weaker race should have the same relative benefits to us.

A human with a common / mundane Higher Purpose coming from a society of humans will often be getting these bonuses against other humans, or, depending on the setting, similarly sized beings. That will be +1 dmg, or, on average, 1/10 of human HP.

A creature from a race with 1 HP average will mostly use the bonuses vs others of its kind. +1 dmg will be 1/1 of their average HP. It gets worse if you have a truly mixed scale campaign, and you use fractional HP and ST, where creatures may actually have less than 1 HP, or do less than 1 dmg per any ST-powered unarmed attack.

There's also giants, and how they're really not getting the same benefits as human scaled creatures vs one another. Less important than the ant that gets insta-kill punch damage vs other ants if they are following their Higher Purpose, but still.
You could always scale it so it's a fraction of the victim's HP added on e.g 10%. Flavor it could be that the gods are ripping a part of them away, regardless of size.
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