You tossed out the enchantment system

[hcobb]

If magic items are rare because each item is the result of a single practitioner slowly discovering how to exploit the unique properties of one item with inate magic to it because it came off a dragon or whatever then shouldn't the enchantment talent be Alchemist?

As for how apprentices learn by casting Aid, why not have them read books of spells while resting?

[Chris Rice]

I don't really have a problem with the Magic Item creation rules (although to be fair I never used them). It's just the costs I have issue with. I kinda like the idea of Wizards needing teams of apprentices to create items; why else would a Wizard bother with an apprentice anyway? They supply you with ST for your projects and in turn they pick up some Magical Education along the way.

[hcobb]

There are two limitations on magical power in TFT:

(A) Humanoid fatigue.

and

(B) Gargoyles to disembowel.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by hcobb

If magic items are rare because each item is the result of a single practitioner slowly discovering how to exploit the unique properties of one item with inate magic to it because it came off a dragon or whatever then shouldn't the enchantment talent be Alchemist?

Yes an no, not in every case, but I really like where you're going with this! That an item might be naturally magical to begin with, and someone (and not necessarily a wizard) could apply their skills to bring out those properties is an intriguing idea!

What you mention is also convergent with the talk in the talents thread right now. Items with some really special properties could very well require a collaboration of creators with different talents such as Alchemy or that other example mentioned there, Master Leatherworker. And here the lone wolf enchanter would probably opt out of the project, but a socially skilled personality might welcome collaborations.

And speaking of "enchantment talents", I'd rather see LMI Creation and GMI Creation taken off the spell tables and labeled as talents (expensive talents) instead. They are after all techniques, skills unto themselves to be mastered, and not individuals spells you ever "cast" anyway. They should sure cost more than 1 learning point too, shouldn't they? But that's another discussion.

Originally Posted by hcobb

As for how apprentices learn by casting Aid, why not have them read books of spells while resting?

Sure it can be rationalized like that. Sounds like an awkward classroom situation to me but then, hey, not as awkward as trying to learn a spell at that Hogwarts place :)

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

I don't really have a problem with the Magic Item creation rules (although to be fair I never used them). It's just the costs I have issue with. I kinda like the idea of Wizards needing teams of apprentices to create items; why else would a Wizard bother with an apprentice anyway? They supply you with ST for your projects and in turn they pick up some Magical Education along the way.

Agreed, I've said elsewhere the costs should be much higher. And in my former group we never used those rules either. I just have this urge for everything to make sense, whether the PCs get to use it or not.

Why does any professional take on apprentices or proteges? Obviously the reasons vary by business or craft, but as we have no real world experience with pro Wizards nothing leaps to mind immediately. I'll think of something interesting now that you've asked! I bet undertaking dangerous jobs so the senior wizard gets to sit safely at home might factor into it though!

[hcobb]

Once you do consider all the stuff that goes into a magic item creation enterprise you will see that the existing rules are inconsistent with the bizarrely low prices.