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Old 05-21-2014, 03:15 PM   #71
pfharlock
 
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Default Re: Capping Skill Default Levels

Ok, I have to ask. I played GURPS a long time ago in 3rd edition. I don't remember much from the experience, and I haven't looked at the 3rd edition rules since. (these days I'm very familiar with 4e rules)

Back then, the one thing I remember was that we picked skills using the following costs...
1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, etc, etc

so the idea was skill costs start going up prohibitively after awhile.

Is this the way it worked in 3rd edition or was my GM just using a house rule?

edit: Never mind I just looked it up in the 3rd -> 4th edition update pdf. So not quite like I remembered it. Man I'm glad they simplified that in 4th :)

Last edited by pfharlock; 05-21-2014 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:12 PM   #72
Sindri
 
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Default Re: Capping Skill Default Levels

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
Perhaps you should suggest two where David Johnston2's comment doesn't make sense, if only to save us time; it really is tricky as there are many Skills that I think might work best if the Optional Specialization/Technique/Familiarity rules were tweaked, instead of subdividing them how it actually is. Given my level of competency in GURPS, I wouldn't place any bets on me being correct. XD

With what I do understand about your concerns, if anything it seems like Skills in general just needs a cap to avoid "weird" things like a Skill 30-just-about-anything having a 19+* default for related skills... and that particular issue with the GURPS Skill system was an issue in 3e as well, and there doesn't seem to be a good solution.

*If there is a Skill with more than a -11 default (before other Modifiers), let me know.
Uh... I don't think his comment doesn't make sense. I was actually asking because it impacts the nature of his statement.

And yeah, naturally I'm going to have a hard cap on skill level regardless of what I decide here.
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:35 PM   #73
Otaku
 
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Default Re: Capping Skill Default Levels

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Uh... I don't think his comment doesn't make sense. I was actually asking because it impacts the nature of his statement.

And yeah, naturally I'm going to have a hard cap on skill level regardless of what I decide here.
Pardon my poor choice of words.

Would you kindly give an example involving two Skills that are highly unlikely to make sense being revised into a single Skill? I actually tried to find some, but between my need to re-learn many Skills (because they are examples where 3e =/= 4e), as I glanced around looking for suitable examples, I came up a bit dry. Note that I didn't look very long.
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :)
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:49 PM   #74
Sindri
 
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Default Re: Capping Skill Default Levels

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Pardon my poor choice of words.

Would you kindly give an example involving two Skills that are highly unlikely to make sense being revised into a single Skill? I actually tried to find some, but between my need to re-learn many Skills (because they are examples where 3e =/= 4e), as I glanced around looking for suitable examples, I came up a bit dry. Note that I didn't look very long.
Like two-handed sword and whip? Unless you felt melee weapon should be a skill it seems unlikely for those to be folded in together.

Or do you mean an example where they have a RAW default? That's a good deal harder.

Oh and actually I did find a skill with more than a -11 default. Surgery from first aid is -12.
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:51 PM   #75
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Default Re: Capping Skill Default Levels

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Or do you mean an example where they have a RAW default? That's a good deal harder.
That would be what I meant, yes. Again, sorry I wasn't clearer.

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Oh and actually I did find a skill with more than a -11 default. Surgery from first aid is -12.
Thanks and ouch... that one was even related to some of the skills I was indeed looking at. XD
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Old 05-21-2014, 07:08 PM   #76
Sindri
 
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Default Re: Capping Skill Default Levels

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That would be what I meant, yes. Again, sorry I wasn't clearer.



Thanks and ouch... that one was even related to some of the skills I was indeed looking at. XD
That's hard for melee weapons. If I were to guess I'd say that the Rapier-Main Gauche default is least likely for someone to house rule into a single skill.

Otherwise defaults coincide as, Kromm pointed out, with possible skill fusions. First aid might be up there. Folding it into other skills makes it hard to represent the guy who is quite competent and reliable at basic stuff without giving him excessive medical capabilities. I'm sure some people have done it though. It's a weird little bit of rules and kind of house rule bait.
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Old 05-21-2014, 07:29 PM   #77
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Capping Skill Default Levels

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And do you also think that broadsword and shortsword should be different skills?
They could be merged. They are after particularly close defaults. But the same reasoning applies to Gods of Politics being phenomenal public speakers or Super Criminologists being good at Search
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Old 05-22-2014, 12:17 AM   #78
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They could be merged. They are after particularly close defaults. But the same reasoning applies to Gods of Politics being phenomenal public speakers or Super Criminologists being good at Search
Does it? Is public speaking just a "stubby" politics? Politics giving a default to public speaking actually seems weird to me though. It seems like the thought process might have been "politicians should be good at public speaking, accordingly default." but politics isn't the skill of being-good-at-politics it's the skill of political strategy and dealing with other politicians. That includes speaking to people so public speaking makes sense as a default but why doesn't diplomacy give a default? Defaults should represent actual areas of overlap not common coexistence. I also think the advantage modifiers to politics should really be more conditional so maybe I'm just not in tune with the ideas behind it.

The other thing is that the question is that it's not a matter of being good at things or even an expert. It's about being a nigh-unparalleled master without actual training.
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Old 05-22-2014, 12:53 AM   #79
David Johnston2
 
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Does it? Is public speaking just a "stubby" politics? Politics giving a default to public speaking actually seems weird to me though. It seems like the thought process might have been "politicians should be good at public speaking, accordingly default." but politics isn't the skill of being-good-at-politics it's the skill of political strategy and dealing with other politicians. .
Nobody can be a great politician without the ability to speak persuasively to committees and legislatures. That may be a specialized form of public speaking, but it is still public speaking.
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Old 05-22-2014, 01:08 AM   #80
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Nobody can be a great politician without the ability to speak persuasively to committees and legislatures. That may be a specialized form of public speaking, but it is still public speaking.
But politics is not the skill of being-a-great-politician it's a skill of specific competencies which neither encompass everything a politician must be good at nor are found only in politicians.
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