01-07-2018, 03:46 PM | #71 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE
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01-07-2018, 03:59 PM | #72 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE
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The colonel says "Can your sensei run faster than a bullet?" "Uh, no sir." "Good, then I can still kill him." |
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01-07-2018, 04:18 PM | #73 | |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE
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Of course, in the right circumstances a knife and aggression is more effective than a mobile artillery battalion but given the option most war leaders would prefer to turn up with approximately all of the firepower. Last edited by mr beer; 01-07-2018 at 05:46 PM. |
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01-07-2018, 04:51 PM | #74 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE
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You can always make do with black powder, which gets you up to flintlock level. Even the most basic settlement could make simple flintlock (Or matchlock) weapons and minni-ball ammo. Rifled barrels wouldn't be hard, either. If you can make primary explosives, you can make some form of percussion cap (Though some schemes might be a little unstable...) and open up a wonderful wide world of firearms. At this point, basic manufacturing ability gets you at least up to manual-feed weapons such as breach loaders, and paper cartridges should be easy, too. If you have enough people to spare the labor, they could even make metal casings. If they don't have access to brass they might make do with steel (Corrosion could be an issue, but if you can make something like lacquer, you can handle that). And once you have metal casings, you can make more weapons. Manual-loaders are probably still ideal, though you can get away with more. The Maxim gun started out using black powder, for instance. Making smokeless powder is more complex, but if you've got the resources to make percussion caps, you're probably most of the way there. Now you can make basically any weapon. Once again, however, smokeless powder will require more work, so you'll need more people working on that to support the same number of troops. If they've got access to large quantities of pre-war ammo, you've got a few more possibilities, so long as they last. Any settlement should be able to make simple firearms that use existing ammo, even if they're just simple removable-bolt breach-loaders. In fact, a rugged bolt-action rifle is probably the best choice for such limited ammo supplies, as they're very rugged and reliable, and won't tear through great quantities of ammo. Unfortunately, scavenged ammo is a very limited resource. Say your warlord has just 100 people to equip. Even if you find, say, a literal ton of 7.62x51mm, that's only a bit over 300 rounds per person. That has to cover training in addition to use in battle. That might do to equip town guards or something, where you're rarely expected to have to fire your weapon but it's not going to support a serious military campaign beyond a couple of engagements, and possibly not even that long. If your army grows larger, that's fewer rounds per soldier, and naturally, those rounds aren't coming back. It's just not sustainable. So to sum up, I'd basically put things into three categories: Minimal infrastructure: black-powder rifled flintlocks firing minni balls. If outfitting a large force, muzzle-loaders. If outfitting a relatively smaller force relative to your worker population, maybe breach-loaders. Basic machining and chemical manufacturing: percussion-fired rifles. If outfitting a large force, breach-loaded with paper cartridges. If outfitting a relatively smaller force relative to your worker population, bolt-action (Possibly magazine-fed) with metal cartridges, possibly supplemented by a very small number of machine guns if ammo production is high enough. Good machining and chemical manufacturing: semi-automatic, magazine-fed rifles with cased, smokeless-powder ammo. If manufacturing capacity permits, specialized weapons can be designed (Marksman, automatic rifles, etc), though keeping the number of ammo types down to a minimum would be ideal. The main throughput concern would probably be the production of powder. Okay, I'm all for promoting logistics and tactics as being hugely important, but saying equipment is irrelevant is as wrong as saying equipment is everything--except nobody has been saying the latter. Even the OP wasn't asking for the highest-quality weapon, he was asking for a weapon that would be cheap and reliable for outfitting a conscript force, which sure sounds like he had logistics in mind... The OP was talking about an after-the-end scenario. Selecting the best people for extensive training might work for developed nations, but when you're talking about factions that might have a few dozen or hundred people in total (maaaybe a few thousand), you either make do with what you can get or do without. This isn't a case of comparing elite troops with pointy sticks against morons with AKs. It's a case of having a fixed group of people and choosing what equipment gives them better performance without being too expensive, too hard to use, or too hard to supply. Making that choice also doesn't mean ignoring other choices, such as tactics and training. So yes, equipment is certainly relevant. |
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01-07-2018, 05:00 PM | #75 | |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE
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01-07-2018, 05:26 PM | #76 | |
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Land of Enchantment
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Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE
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I'd need to get a grant and go shoot a thousand goats to figure it out. Last edited by acrosome; 01-07-2018 at 06:00 PM. |
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01-07-2018, 06:33 PM | #77 |
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand.
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Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE
One thought for a support weapon, a Boer war era Pom Pom gun.
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Waiting for inspiration to strike...... And spending too much time thinking about farming for RPGs Contributor to Citadel at Nordvörn |
01-08-2018, 12:48 AM | #78 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
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Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE
If they're able to make their own guns, a pump-action rifle (such as the Remington Model 19) may be the way to go. You get the accuracy of a rifle with the simplicity of a pump action, though the periodic reloading after something like every ten shots (depending on cartridge used and length of the cylinder) would make it less useful in sustained combat. Although, ten to twelve shots with only a second or two between volleys before affixing bayonets and charging would make them better than the muzzleloading musketmen who have to take half a minute to reload between volleys. Of course, they'd be at a disadvantage against neighbors who had automatic weapons.
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01-08-2018, 03:12 AM | #79 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE
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This last mounted pistol charge was led by Ed Ramsey in command of G troop, 26th Cavalry. It was the last mounted charge in America's annals, and proved the climax of the 26th Cavalry's magnificent but doomed horseback campaign against the Imperial Japanese Army during the fall of the Philippines in 1941-42. The point is not that outstanding examples of success don't exist it's that they tend to be rather unusual, and anecdotal in terms of relevance. They are great stories about extraordinary people doing extraordinary things, but they don't actually tell us much beyond sometimes in war extraordinary things happen. This is one I referenced earlier, the bayonet charge happened at night, and was not plan A. Last edited by Tomsdad; 01-08-2018 at 05:42 AM. |
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01-08-2018, 03:16 AM | #80 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE
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Last edited by Tomsdad; 01-08-2018 at 04:59 AM. |
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