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Old 02-08-2011, 07:35 AM   #1
smoothhands
 
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Default Sylph Preservation clarifications

Couple of questions:

1. If you play a monster enhancer and then use Sylph Preservation to take it back, does the enhancer still "stick"? This would extend to other such persistent categories as Curses, Restraining Order, and the like. Basically, all cards that would normally last for some specified amount of time beyond when the card was actually played. (And I assume you can't do something like equipping a sword and then using Sylph Preservation to both put it into your hand AND retain the bonus...though of course you could do it if you just wanted it in your hand again).
2. Could you use it to pick up Divine Intervention from the discard pile and go up another level as a Cleric? If true, then theoretically a player before you could have drawn/immediately played/discarded it, making you go up a level, then you could use Resurrection to pick it up and play it again, going up another, and then Sylph Preservation immediately afterwards to go up a third...any of which could have been the winning level!
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:11 AM   #2
MunchkinMan
 
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Default Re: Sylph Preservation clarifications

  1. A card in your hand doesn't count towards anything. It's in your hand. Any given physical card can only be in play as one instance*, so removing it from in-play removes its effect. So, you can't pick up a Monster Enhancer using Sylph Preservation and then play it again and expect it to count double.
  2. I'm having a hard time seeing how the DI scenario that you describe wouldn't work, so for the time being, I'd call it legal.


*Normally. Fairy Dust has another card which breaks this generalization, but it states explicitly that it does.
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:36 AM   #3
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Default Re: Sylph Preservation clarifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunchkinMan View Post
  1. A card in your hand doesn't count towards anything. It's in your hand. Any given physical card can only be in play as one instance*, so removing it from in-play removes its effect. So, you can't pick up a Monster Enhancer using Sylph Preservation and then play it again and expect it to count double.
  2. I'm having a hard time seeing how the DI scenario that you describe wouldn't work, so for the time being, I'd call it legal.


*Normally. Fairy Dust has another card which breaks this generalization, but it states explicitly that it does.
That makes sense. I had seen people here referring specifically to Restraining Order and being able to reuse its effects through Sylph Preservation, but it seems like a gray area now that the ruling has been made that cards' effects only last as long as they are "on the table".

Here's my updated understanding on the uses of card:

1. Use a card with one-shot “resolving” effect, get the effect, and then take that card back. “Resolving” means that the effect starts and stops immediately, which does not include things with ongoing effects that give a bonus throughout that battle, like potions or monster enhancers. The card has to be in play, i.e. on the table, for its effects to be felt. An example of a valid use would be playing Pollymorph Potion on a monster to end a battle and collect the treasure, and then immediately taking the Pollymorph Potion back to reuse later.
2. Use a card with a persistent effect, get any immediate effects implied or otherwise, and then take that card back. For something like a Curse that makes people lose items and continue to not be able to carry/use those items, like Big Feet, you can use the Curse to make them discard their initial footwear but then use Sylph Preservation to put the Curse back in your hand to use on someone else. The original player who was Cursed does not have the Curse anymore, but they also don’t get back whatever they lost while they had the Curse.

Do both of these uses look accurate to you?
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:33 PM   #4
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Default Re: Sylph Preservation clarifications

Now I got a little confused.

There are all those cards in fairy dust, that are usable only once and have the ability to roll to see if they get back in your hands.

Let's say the Pixie Potion.

I always assumed if the person rolled 4~6, they would have already drank the potion and have the bonus. They could even play it again, as it was in their hands, as if it was refilling.

Once I used it to pump myself in an outrageous array of good rolls to combat streght of almost 80.

do I owe those munchkins an apology?

Now.. if it gets back to my hand, I don't get the bonuses or are you talking only about monster enhancers?

Last edited by Morfeatire; 02-08-2011 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: Sylph Preservation clarifications

Since not all of those cards say they can be re-used in the same combat (a la Second Chance Sparkles), then yes, it sounds like you may have some apologies to make. I would say, after the combat is over, when these particular Items would be about to be discarded, roll to see if you keep them, or roll beforehand and remember to take them back, whatever works. Unless someone who has more intimate official knowledge about these cards wants to interject and correct me, of course.
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:29 PM   #6
Morfeatire
 
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Default Re: Sylph Preservation clarifications

Thing is.. on the text it says "when you play this card, roll a die. On a 1-3, discard it, On a 4 or more, return it to your hand."

Not questioning the ruling, just the timing of the roll and the timing of the effects.

as it says to do it right when you play it, I misinterpreted that way.

Perharps this mechanic needs a text clarification or maybe even an errata?

Of course I'm not a native english speaker, I can be misinterpreting this too :P
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:02 AM   #7
thedag
 
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Default Re: Sylph Preservation clarifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morfeatire View Post
Thing is.. on the text it says "when you play this card, roll a die. On a 1-3, discard it, On a 4 or more, return it to your hand."

Not questioning the ruling, just the timing of the roll and the timing of the effects.

as it says to do it right when you play it, I misinterpreted that way.

Perharps this mechanic needs a text clarification or maybe even an errata?

Of course I'm not a native english speaker, I can be misinterpreting this too :P
On the fairy dust (FD) cards some say you can use it again in the same combat while others just say return to your hand. Unless there was an official ruling I would assume that it means you can only use it again in the combat if it actually says so.
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:20 AM   #8
Morfeatire
 
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Default Re: Sylph Preservation clarifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedag View Post
On the fairy dust (FD) cards some say you can use it again in the same combat while others just say return to your hand. Unless there was an official ruling I would assume that it means you can only use it again in the combat if it actually says so.
I don't think they have exactly the same mechanic as those I was talking about. I was talking about those with roll for 4~6 to get the card back. None of those has this text.

But if the roll happened in the time the text says it does (thats when the card resolve, not instead of putting it on the discard pile in the end of the combat), nothing would prevent it from being played again, as it was in your hand, is still a one shot item and it still combat. Just this ruling and the comparison with another card in the set (that is way different from those).

Also by this ruling, if it happened in the given time, the bonus wouldn't stay, so it would be useless.

I still don't understand this one, just followed MM ruling and apologized to those poor munchkins.
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Old 01-10-2015, 02:46 AM   #9
whassumattuh
 
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Default Re: Sylph Preservation clarifications

Player A uses Fairy Berries to prevent Player B from winning a combat. Player A then plays Sylph Preservation to pick up the Fairy Berries and then uses the Fairy Berries a second time in the same combat. Can Sylph Preservation be used to pick up a one-shot item that had been played in a combat to play it a second time in the same combat?

The concern is that Sylph Preservation says that a player can take any card that you have JUST PLAYED or DISCARDED.

Last edited by whassumattuh; 01-10-2015 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 01-11-2015, 10:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: Sylph Preservation clarifications

When you use Sylph Preservation, it removes the card from the combat -- canceling whatever effect it had. If you play the card back into the combat, it only counts that one time.
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...95&postcount=2
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