09-10-2018, 01:06 PM | #21 | |
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(If you have to ask . . .) Join Date: Feb 2005
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Re: Superheroes versus Spaceships
A someone who does use supers against starships on a regular basis with my Supers Trek game . . ..
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Unmodified, IT:DR /10,000 is only 600 points, with a power modifier it's only 540. Not terribly expensive for an M-Scale super who is going to be fighting starships moving at 360 mps. A SM +12 starship ramming a SM 0 Super at 360 mps (going with the ship having the smaller dST at 300) would inflict (and take) ~2 million dice of damage. For about ~6.5 million points of damage (calculations assume those values). Unless they have super-effort DR, and a lot of it, unmodified DR just isn't going to enter our discussion. That level of damage would red-mist our super (being taken to -15 x HP, and without Unkillable 2 or 3) and turn the ship into subatomic particles (the ship being taken to -21,665 x HP in the impact). If that super had 100 HP, the impact would still kill them (take them to just over -6 x HP), again, assuming they didn't buy some level of Unkillable. If the super had IT:DR /50,000 (even though the M-Scale cap is /10,000) . . . with 40 HP they would take 130 points and, possibly, still be alive. If the super had 100 HP, they'd be at -30 and alive, likely regenerating 10 HP a second, so they'd be back up to full in the next Spaceships turn. A super with 200 HP would be pleased as the ship has simply ceased to exist. Heck, if the super had some healing absorption on their DR . . .. Ramming an M-Scale super would likely be worse on the starship in any and every case. But, considering that the super could have a 15,000d Innate attack, put Increased Range: LOS on it and Long-Range 2, have some long-range vision (with an additional level of Long-Range to remove range penalties. The ship will never get close enough to slam them and will just be a stream of debris drifting forever through space . . .. As Hand of Bobb is fond of saying: "Let me introduce you to this guy; his name is 'Cosmic Ray.'" |
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09-10-2018, 03:36 PM | #22 |
Join Date: May 2010
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Re: Superheroes versus Spaceships
Why not? Pretty much every ability a spaceship can have is something a super can also have. And the Spaceships rules can be used to build giant monsters that are normally the sort of thing you'd use regular combat rules. The books only give small bits of guidance about when to use which rules, but the main answers seem to be "use standard combat while in atmosphere" and maybe "use standard combat for very short ranges e.g. while in port." If supers are fighting ships in orbit at great ranges (say >100 miles), the idea of using space combat rules for that fight becomes plausible, I think. At least, it makes as much sense as the space combat rules ever do (although the space combat rules are super weird).
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09-10-2018, 03:46 PM | #23 |
Join Date: May 2010
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Re: Superheroes versus Spaceships
I should maybe add: to the extent I can justify speed penalties for ramming under Spaceships, but not ordinary vehicle combat, it's that speed penalties are appropriate when relative velocity is much much greater than the amount you can accelerate in 1 second. This is definitely true of supers with Space Move in the 10-20 range moving at hundreds of mps relative to their targets.
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09-10-2018, 06:30 PM | #24 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Superheroes versus Spaceships
Well one reason is because unless they are Ultra-Man superheroes who can damage spaceships have power vastly out of proportion to their size. And even anti-missile weapons are going to damage human sized characters all over.
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09-10-2018, 08:33 PM | #25 |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Superheroes versus Spaceships
One thing to remember is that most of the templates in supers are I scale and only Archetype(the most expensive templae) really reaching D scale.
The small fighters in spaceships start at D scale and you get quickly to C scale for even fairly small size ships and M scale eventually too. The base archetype is only: 3d+1/3d+2 Ddamage with punches and has dDR 10 and effective 330 dHP. Compare that to the Starhawk from SS 4(the x-wing cameo): a 30 ton fighter with 4d DDamage, dDR 5+20 and 20 dHP. The real problem for the archetype fighting the starfighter would be the slow flight speed even if specced for such, but after putting some more points in that the archetype would seem likely to win due to the tremendously faster attacks(20/20 seconds, compared to 4/20 seconds for fighter) and much higher effective hitpoints. To get to the scale of even something like the Tiger-class frigate from SS 3, the archetype would need a lot more Damage Reduction to get more effective HP and ST(or alternatively a C-scale innate attack) to get though the armor. A 2000 point hero being on D scale seems pretty normal based on my own experiences in "not really supers" game. In my current high power fantasy campaign the heroes reached D scale about that time and now at close to 4000 points they are solid D-scale, but due to certain campaign limitations they are not even close to C-scale. But without those limits they would likely be close to C-scale. |
09-10-2018, 08:55 PM | #26 | ||
Join Date: May 2010
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Re: Superheroes versus Spaceships
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Another reason this is non-obvious: if you use if you use space combat rules for ship vs. ship, and standard combat rules for ship vs. super (at the same relative speed and range), it may end up being vastly easier for a ship to ram an SM+0 super than to ram a SM+4 or greater ship. Which certainly seems odd (although lots of things about the space combat rules are odd). |
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09-10-2018, 11:33 PM | #27 | |
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Re: Superheroes versus Spaceships
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Supers range in power level from minimal to deific and everywhere in between. You're seeming to assume that they're out of proportion, but, really, that just depends on the game. If all you think supers should be is I-scale, then, you're going to have trouble with the mental exercise of how powerful those supers above that level can be. And, if you're going to try to discuss real-world physics when dealing with supers . . . you've already gone down the wrong path. Honestly, some Unkillable 2 with very fast regeneration that works when you're dead and just about any super can "survive"(1) hits from spaceship weapons. D-Scale supers would be a threat to spaceships; they're trading damage at the same level. C-Scale supers would prey on spaceship. M-Scale supers would be wiping out fleets of them with single actions. (1)-Depending on if you consider getting better from being dead "surviving." |
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09-10-2018, 11:50 PM | #28 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Superheroes versus Spaceships
[QUOTE=Mark Skarr;2208272]
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09-10-2018, 11:53 PM | #29 |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
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Re: Superheroes versus Spaceships
I get the feeling you misread DJ2's intention. He's merely saying that supers' powers don't scale to bodily size, whereas spaceships' powers are inherently linked to their mass (and TL), so the design system won't work as is.
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09-11-2018, 12:17 AM | #30 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Superheroes versus Spaceships
Not so. Lasers, blasters, & etc. that penetration modifiers do so because they attack a small area at high intensity. They'll hit characters on a single location, as normal. If they didn't they should have special rules for hitting small missiles (a bonus to hit for spread, reduced damage in the even the missile was unusually tough).
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