10-13-2008, 12:57 PM | #41 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: In the State of Jefferson
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Re: Ogre Minis Revision Issue: Mark VII
I keep forgetting that this monster is M2. Given that, I think that doubling the range of the main and secondary batteries would not be unreasonable. Now you've got mobile howitzer ranged MBs, and missile tank ranged SBs. Maybe grant the Rattlers and extra 3 hexes/6 inches of range. Why? Why not? I'm sure that some Star Trekish techno babble could be cobbled up about a stabler firing platform, larger caliber weapons with great PD, more powerful anti-PD weapons suite on the Mark VII, etc,...
The point being that if you're going to build the Ogre Mark VII Juggernaut/Behemoth then you're seriously going to have to step up the quality of it's armaments by an order of magnitude, there's a certain point where "more of the same" isn't better and definitely not cost effective. So let's give it more AND bigger teeth and then see how much it can bite off.
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"God may not play dice with the universe, but I have to." OGRE Geek Code: S+ 01+ 02++ G+++ S+++ RP+++ OM+++ B+++ GO() O3D+++ PO +++ HR/NU++ MK1+ MK2+ MK3+ MK4+ MK5+ MK6+ F+ D+ CM+ W+ |
01-28-2010, 09:59 AM | #42 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The North American Combine
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Re: Ogre Minis Revision Issue: Mark VII
Mk. VII Ares (Revised)
6 External Msl 000000 6 MsL Racks 000000 24 Internal Missiles 000000 000000 000000 000000 4 MB 0000 (Attack 4, Range 6", Defense 4) 8 ERSB 0000 0000 (Attack 3, Range 6", Defense 3) (note that the Extended Range secondaries have the same range as the MB) 24 PD 000000 000000 000000 000000 96 Tread Units: Movement starts at 4" 000000 000000 000000 000000 (Movement drops to 3") 000000 000000 000000 000000 (movement drops to 2") 000000 000000 000000 000000 (movement drops to 1") 000000 000000 000000 000000 (movement drops to 0")
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"There is no such thing as a dangerous weapon, only dangerous men." "Death is certain, life is not." "No one assails me without punishment" |
01-29-2010, 12:11 PM | #43 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Re: Ogre Minis Revision Issue: Mark VII
Quote:
My point is it becomes more like the slow but unstoppable force that it should be with two lump sums. Also with so few movement to begin with will beg the question... why doesn't it have cruise missiles of some sort? I could see fitting 2 racks and 4 missiles in it. For the sake of the argument, they have fit 'the bomb' on a rifle even. The M-65 Davey Crockett has even been mentioned around here. With the package so small its just a matter of the delivery device (the missile part), and as long as the missile is going to stay within 25-50 hex, it doesn't have to be that... BIG. The Chinese C-602 (debut 2006) anti-ship/land attack cruise missile isn't all that large and it has ranges of something around 100+/- miles. *a link for reference of anti-ship cruise missiles* Last edited by Rhymes With Orange; 01-29-2010 at 12:24 PM. |
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01-31-2010, 03:57 PM | #44 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The North American Combine
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Re: Ogre Minis Revision Issue: Mark VII
Quote:
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"There is no such thing as a dangerous weapon, only dangerous men." "Death is certain, life is not." "No one assails me without punishment" |
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01-31-2010, 06:28 PM | #45 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
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Re: Ogre Minis Revision Issue: Mark VII
After a lot of second thought I have to finally agree with you that it would be better to not have cruise missiles. Cruise missiles *crawlers* are always just so disposable. OGRE's are not.
I'm going with that kind of thinking now, and thinking as well that this thing we are talking about, if built, would have been for combat with other OGRE's. After all, as the story line progresses the human race dwindles and the OGRE's are slowly taking over the feild. *it seems* Wouldn't it then be a greater asset if it were to have the normal OGRE missile + back up medium range missiles + mains + secondaries & AP. I thought of it like this *in board game standards* MK VII "Behemoth" 4 Long range Missile Racks 20 Internal Long Range OGRE Missiles (6/5) 6 Medium Range Missile Racks 30 Internal Medium Range OGRE Missiles (4/3) 4 Main Batteries 10 Secondaries 20 AP 96 tread, M2 *In addition I would increase the defensive value on the mains and secondaries by one point. Effectively giving it a "super-heavy" feel it should have in my mind. This is just something I came up with on a Sunday evening, and like it or laugh at it, I'm still posting it. |
05-05-2011, 05:12 AM | #46 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oregon
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Re: Ogre Minis Revision Issue: Mark VII
Check out my blog for more details concerning this Mark Here.
The Mark VII would be a missile bus with an ability to shoot down cruise missiles. I would behind the Mark IVs and Mark 3s supporting their advance and shooting down any cruise missiles that happen to slip through. Mark VII (Re-engineered by Toltrin Industries) Points: 246 Size: 10 (It's BIG) 12 External Missiles (6/5 D3) 00000 00000 4 Main Battery (4/3 D4) 0000 24 Antipersonnel (1/1 D1) 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 96 Tread Units (DEF at 1:1) 00000 00000 000000 00000 00000 000000 00000 00000 000000 M2 00000 00000 000000 00000 00000 000000 00000 00000 000000 M1 Personal note: I have play tested this unit against 250 VP worth of infantry and armor (25% INF, 25% GEV, and the rest MSL TNK and HVY TNK with a few SprHVYs). Surprisingly over the 6 games I played it was 3 games won and 3 lost. Personal suggestion: Make missile racks shoot 2 internal missiles a turn instead of just one. People would not load their back chassis with 1-shot externals if missile racks packed punch. Additionally, lets add one more defense to the missile rack (D5) to make it more survivable - there are, after all, many many unfired missiles inside ready to find their targets.
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HCobb's OGRE Maker Yet another OGRE designer FJCestero OGRE Maker CP Alpha's new home My email Last edited by Toltrin; 05-05-2011 at 05:32 AM. |
05-05-2011, 05:44 AM | #47 | |
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oregon
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Re: Ogre Minis Revision Issue: Mark VII
Quote:
What is the equation that is used for creating an OGRE weapon then? Mains are 9 vp, Secondaries equal to 6 vp, External missiles are 8 vp and AP batteries buy in at 1/2 vp. Funny thing, I gave that same Heavy tank a single AP battery (1/1 D3, M2) and the Cobb formula spit out a value of 1.2 vp. LOL :) So just for fun I loaded that same chassis with x3 1/1 AP batteries... 1.65 vp. So, if you simulated a weapon system and applied a coefficient (it can't be disabled) you would end up with a rough approximation of it's equivalent of it's cost. Main...9 vp Secondary...6 vp On a Heavy Tank chassis they would be: 4/3 D4 M3(simulates OGRE movement) = 8.6 vp (96% different than Cobb) 3/2 D3 M3 = 5 vp (83% different than Cobb) 3/3 D3 M3 = 6.5 vp 6/5 D3 M3 = 4.7 vp (59% different than Cobb) So if we do some math (ugh) let's average the three main weapon systems ((.96+.86+.59)/3) x Cobb value of your weapon system on a HVY TNK chassis = 5.22 vp I love statistics. Am I correct? Extended Range Secondaries = 5 vp, maybe 7 vp or 8 vp because they cannot be disabled ((9+6)/2)? Personally, I am going with 7.5 (Cobb x 1.44). I don't know, maybe make it a log function? ... I was in a math mood. I get that way sometimes. :)
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HCobb's OGRE Maker Yet another OGRE designer FJCestero OGRE Maker CP Alpha's new home My email Last edited by Toltrin; 05-05-2011 at 06:38 AM. |
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05-06-2011, 07:39 PM | #48 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Buffalo NY
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Re: Ogre Minis Revision Issue: Mark VII
I remain convince that any speed 2 (4") Ogre remains over-valued. They are just seriously vulnerable to GEV attack right from minute one. The GEV's will always get to dictate who makes first attack, and will remove a good piece of the long range firepower with their first attack. The Ogre must expend it's own long range firepower (and probably movement) trying to get the GEV's and given the current point value of the Ogre, it's unlikely to get them all. Overall, I don't see it being a reasonably valued unit operating on it's own.
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05-07-2011, 02:49 AM | #49 | |
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oregon
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Re: Ogre Minis Revision Issue: Mark VII
Quote:
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05-11-2011, 10:09 AM | #50 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Buffalo NY
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Re: Ogre Minis Revision Issue: Mark VII
Unfortunately, I don't think the points system works well for units that aren't "standalone". I suspect that around this point, the "system" needs to be dropped.
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