CR for the U.S. ca 1921

[HANS]

There are several points to this.

1. The things were pretty much legal for most of the 1920s and in most of the US.
2. That doesn't mean they were common -- far from it. They were very expensive and difficult to find (usually you have to order from the manufacturer or steal from the police). That's already a good reason for investigators not to have them.
3. However, you might want to examine your reasons WHY you don't want your investigators to run around with them. If you're just following the misguided "feel" of Call of Cthulhu, which terms gunfights stupid and, essentially, bad roleplaying, think again -- if you were someone investigating something dreadfully horrifying. Wouldn't you equip yourself as best as you could, like any sane man? Remember, some of HP Lovecraft's characters even armed up with flamethrowers and regularly used dynamite etc. The key is to ensure that the submachine guns can't beat the horror.

Cheers

HANS

[Jonas]

Originally Posted by HANS

There are several points to this.

1. The things were pretty much legal for most of the 1920s and in most of the US.
2. That doesn't mean they were common -- far from it. They were very expensive and difficult to find (usually you have to order from the manufacturer or steal from the police). That's already a good reason for investigators not to have them.
3. However, you might want to examine your reasons WHY you don't want your investigators to run around with them. If you're just following the misguided "feel" of Call of Cthulhu, which terms gunfights stupid and, essentially, bad roleplaying, think again -- if you were someone investigating something dreadfully horrifying. Wouldn't you equip yourself as best as you could, like any sane man? Remember, some of HP Lovecraft's characters even armed up with flamethrowers and regularly used dynamite etc. The key is to ensure that the submachine guns can't beat the horror.

Cheers

HANS

Pretty much this, anything else smacks of punishing the players for their characters acting logically IC'ly. "Gee, we tend to run into a lot of big bad horrors who try eating us maybe we should carry something more potent then 38 special revolvers?" "Nah, then it wouldn't be fun.!" "...You are insane you know that?" "Yup, now lets go into that dark abandoned building and split up!"

[Anders]

Yeah, that might be better. Besides, it's a Chill campaign so they may be required to go someplace else. Planning your investigator around the SMG may not be a good idea if you may be called upon to go somewhere they are legal.

[IrishRover]

First of all, I'd recomend leting them have the guns, and using them when it's appropriate. Sometimes, solving a problem by riddling it with more bullets than it can swim with is satisfying. Just remember the propblems with the guns, too.

Keep the players moving--if they're specialists, they might be needed everywhere. That Tommy Gun will NOT be OK if they end up chasing the fiend to Berlin.

Also, if they're known to carry submachine guns, as has been said, the cops will assume they're trouble.

If they engage a monster in a city, all bullets stop SOMEWHERE. It's bad PR--and sometimes fatal--if they stop in the wrong place or person.

Gangsters that see them may well think there's competition if a group shows up in town armed with them.

And--like any valuable piece of geat, someone might try to steal it. Since they can't carry it on the train, it goes in the baggage car--does it come off?

Oh--and shooting off silver bullets by the hundreds gets expensive...

States and towns can have their own laws and ordninces.

In short, if the guns are useful tools, but not the be-all and end-all of monster hunting, then I'd let them have them.

I speak as someone who ran a long campaign in a low magic 1920's, and all this and more came into play. They loved the guns, but knew when NOT to use them. When the foiled the assination of Kaiser Wilhelm (it was an alternate history) they used a German oficer's pistol, a sword, and anything else they could get their paws on...

Overdoing this sort of thing frustrates the players, but if you do it reasonably, it should work. <Remember the holdout stat is there for a reason!>

The 1920's can be a great time--they're sure roaring, but darkness lurks beneath the glitz...

[johndallman]

The subject line had me thinking about Prohibition. It's something to remember for this setting.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by johndallman

The subject line had me thinking about Prohibition. It's something to remember for this setting.

I don't think Prohibition is an example of the CR rating of the US, but rather an example of changing the LC of alcohol.

[Apache]

CoC has never said 'gunfights are stupid'.

They have said, 'gunfights are deadly, especially to player characters, and are to be avoided if possible'.

And most Cthulhuesque-style horror games are going to have monsters that are either immune/ignore conventional weapons, or the adventure is in a place where carrying/getting access to Big Guns isn't possible.

Hell, Delta Green was based on the premise that the PC's get to carry All The Fun Toys if they can swing it, you know.

But I've run CoC classic 1920's games where the players were loaded for bear/Deep Ones/cultists (Thompsons, BAR's, grenades, a battery of 105mm artillery....) and the only thing that saved them (and the world) was one PC's skill level in Ancient Sanskrit....:)

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by trooper6

I don't think Prohibition is an example of the CR rating of the US, but rather an example of changing the LC of alcohol.

Agreed.

As far as overall CR, I remember that in 3e GURPS, the United States was generally considered to be CR2 before about 1934 and CR3 afterward. I don't know if that would hold up in the newer edition, though, or to serious historical consideration.

[Sam Cade]

Circa 1920 one phone call to the Francis Bannerman company (or other importer) could result in anything up to and including modern artillery pieces delivered to the doorstep provided the PCs have the coin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollepel_Island

http://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/...hp?item_id=938

[Anthony]

As a side note, the concept of CR can be nebulous in some societies, as weapons control is not always done by means of law; it might be legal to own something, but still get you in trouble to carry it around.