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Old 07-22-2019, 10:43 AM   #1
Boge
 
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Default How do you handle monetary rewards when the player can't pay the character point cost

Example: I plan to marry a Lord's daughter. He only has the one daughter, no wife. I think plan to have him assassinated, which should leave everything of his to myself. I would gain Status and Wealth, but without having the character points to buy those advantages, how do you handle it?
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:03 AM   #2
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: How do you handle monetary rewards when the player can't pay the character point

I would do one or more or a combination of:

-apply one or more disads to match the CP cost of the advantage gained

-require the character to dedicate all or a set proportion of future/ongoing CP rewards to pay up the CP cost

- just award the necessary CP for effective play
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:06 AM   #3
The Colonel
 
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Default Re: How do you handle monetary rewards when the player can't pay the character point

Up to the GM, but simply put, perhaps your character doesn't get these benefits - or at least not straight away. The status would be an excellent example since in real life, commoners didn't marry straight into authority without enormous problems. The character may, de jure have his father in law's title but in reality none of his peers have any respect for him until he earns (enough character points to pay for) it.
Likewise the wealth … is the setting feudal? Perhaps the king has the same questions as the peers above and does not permit the character to inherit until he has proven that he can be trusted with such a tenancy. Maybe the wealth is put outside his direct control by complicated legal arrangements that need to be overcome. Perhaps there is the equivalent of a salic law dispute and the wife's cousin claims right of inheritance.

These measures could be construed as balancing disadvantages or merely that the PC has in game permission to buy these advantages at a later date...

Or the GM could allow a massive point debt...
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:24 AM   #4
Mark Skarr
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Default Re: How do you handle monetary rewards when the player can't pay the character point

I'm in the "Lost is lost/Found is found" camp. If you earn something through gameplay, then, congratulations, you've got it. Your point total increases. Ditto if you lose something.

Players spend their CP to buy things that they can't just earn, or if they want it faster.

Great googly moogly! I'm using CP to empower game-related, non-cosmetic microtransactions! Well, at least I still refuse to accept money for CP.
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: How do you handle monetary rewards when the player can't pay the character point

There are a couple models for how to handle advantages gained in play, and GURPS isn't totally decided on which should be used. In general your choices are:
  • Advantages gained in play just change point total, xp is not used.
  • The player should pay the advantage cost. If they have insufficient xp, they can make up the difference by taking appropriate disadvantages or by going into debt.
In this particular case, secrets and/or enemies are appropriate.
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: How do you handle monetary rewards when the player can't pay the character point

In your example I'd also give "Secret: Responsible for previous lord's death", and maybe even some enemies, bad rep, etc. If things don't 100% equal out, that's fine. But it's not going to be all gain with no downside.
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Old 07-22-2019, 12:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: How do you handle monetary rewards when the player can't pay the character point

Spending the points is plot insurance. Since you're inheriting and can't spend the points yet, you can chalk it up to not being quite "famous" enough to keep the Status, and not experienced enough in financial matters to maintain the Wealth. So, if the PC makes stupid decisions, that's lost money.
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Old 07-22-2019, 12:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: How do you handle monetary rewards when the player can't pay the character point

Agreed, assassinating your character's father-in-law should give at least a -20 or -30 point secret, depending on the rules of society (almost certainly -30 in this case). Likewise, he may get status, but possibly with a social stigma or negative reputation that offsets it to some degree (unless it is a rare society that both has nobility and where gaining your status and wealth by marriage is seen as the same as being born to it). That should keep the point gain manageable.
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Old 07-22-2019, 12:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: How do you handle monetary rewards when the player can't pay the character point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post
I'm in the "Lost is lost/Found is found" camp. If you earn something through gameplay, then, congratulations, you've got it. Your point total increases. Ditto if you lose something.

Players spend their CP to buy things that they can't just earn, or if they want it faster.

Great googly moogly! I'm using CP to empower game-related, non-cosmetic microtransactions! Well, at least I still refuse to accept money for CP.
Mostly this.
If they plan for it and enact the necessary action in game, it is their - just write it down and adjust the CP total.

They can pay CP to
-get it faster / with less "work" at the table.
-make sure it is reasonably permanent ("plot protection") especially for social advantages.
-make sure it is exactly what they want (my players are well aware of the difference between a purchased and earned reputation for example). They pay for it, they describe it. They don't ... I decide.
-make sure there is no (or fewer) hidden cost (in your case, an hidden heir, ennemies, ...)

But they don't have to pay, and if they worked hard enough and well enough, it may end as good as if they had.

Last edited by Celjabba; 07-22-2019 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 07-22-2019, 12:29 PM   #10
ericthered
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Default Re: How do you handle monetary rewards when the player can't pay the character point

In this situation the lack of character points to pay for the situation is the least of the concerns. If this is a game where such actions are appropriate, then that's a legitimate way to win wealth and status.

However, there are some caveats here:

I don't allow characters who have the ability to easily become wealthy to start without the wealth advantage, and especially with wealth disadvantages, unless why this is so is accurately described and paid for. If you're a landless noble, that actually costs points.

I can see the situation you are describing coming up in play, but it throws some red flags and "complications" I can throw in as a GM. In many settings the heir will be your prospective bride's cousin, uncle, or other male relative. In other settings, you still won't be the inheritor, because your bride will rule in her own name, with you as consort. It take a special breed of quasi-chauvinism to let the husband of a woman inherit but no the woman. Second, you don't just have to find a girl who will fall for your charm, you also have to convince her father, and you have to do so when competing against suitors that have more time, actually live the ideal life-style, and have better connections. If you want to kill the father, you need to get the timing right to avoid enemies, rumors, and your own wife turning on you, so you have to live the life for several months to avoid that (and you won't completely avoid that).

After you've overcome all that... sure, you've earned your wealth and status. Of course, now your wealth is in land and in a form that I, the GM, can throw plot hook after complication after. Did you really think that the father ran this place? hah! its his steward that does all the work. Did you learn the minute by-laws associated with this particular estate? the steward did, and a few of his buddies as well.

Also... what are you planning to do next? if you needed the estate to advance to a goal, that's awesome, and I look forward to the next step -- just be aware your enemies can hit you back. If you want to play the game as an aristocrat properly, I'm all for it. Though I'm confused why you killed your valuable mentor. If you're just trying to gain wealth, congratulations! you may live in luxury for the rest of your life. Lets make your next character.

*********************************

The problems with awarding these points, as far as I can see, are:
  • The campaign isn't designed to handle rapidly advancing characters
  • The other players feel like they just had the spotlight yanked off of them to favor the guy who chased after wealth and power.

Both of these problems are about the social contract. If the aspiring Baron is going off on his own to accomplish this, he's being a spotlight hog. If the other players are accomplices in all this, they should receive almost as much benefit from this exploit as everyone else. Are you really going to turn your backs on your friends who got you all of this money and wealth?

Finally, I find that social advantages, such as money, status, and wealth, are easily leveraged to benefit the whole group. One of you may have x30 as much money as everyone else, but as long as he's part of the group, it doesn't actually feel that overwhelming. I even play games where such advantages are explicitly not part of point totals.
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