GURPS Heavy Gear

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Langy

I wouldn't bother doing that. The damage loss you're talking about is there for the same exact reason a 1/2D range is there in GURPS - as range increases, damage decreases. The difference is that in GURPS, the damage decrease happens abruptly and at only two points (1/2D range, where it's half damage, and maximum range, where it's no damage at all), where in Heavy Gear it occurs gradually (like it should in real-life).

So, what I'm trying to say is just stick a 1/2D range on that laser and it'll work fine. I'd probably make it the Extreme range like you did with the ballistic weapons.

My issue is that, while it works okay for the SLC, the other high-energy weapons would brutalize the converted game. So, my, tentative solution:

Apply a single hit of range diffusion on the front end, and factoring damage from there. So, the SLC (a x12 weapon) would be a x11 weapon, and do 5d+2 (2) damage. Also, instead of using their Extreme range, I’ll use their Long Range to calculate their ½D, but their extreme to calculate their Max. So, it would have a ½D of 1,000 instead of 2,000, but a Max Range of like 6,000.

So, instead of a 10d (2) burn weapon, a HLC would be 8d+2 (2) burn out to 1,000 yards. That’s a bit easier to swallow. It’ll still crease your shorts, but not as bad.

Originally Posted by Langy

It won't have the same 'feel' as in Heavy Gear, but it won't involve complicated mechanics and will streamline it in relation to all other GURPS weapons.

Yep. Gotta be streamlined. Want it to be simple.

Originally Posted by Langy

Also: I rather like the way you handled the high-acc problem I pointed out.

I’m glad you like it. I knew there were problems with my basic idea, but I hadn’t had the time to think on them. Having slept and taken a shower (where I do a lot of thinking) I figured out some errors I’d made. So when you posted your problem, I was able to do some mental gymnastics (the only kind I’m allowed to do) to come up with a, hopefully, good solution.

[Mark Skarr]

So, here’s a consolidation of information. How to get stats for a GURPS vehicle stat line!

TL: Heavy Gear deals with multiple Tech Levels, so I just call this TL:HG.

Vehicle: This is the Gear’s name.

ST/HP: A Gears ST/HP value depends on it’s Size. Size 6 Gears have ST of 100 and HP of 200. Size 7 Gears have ST of 110 and HP of 220. These values are divided by 10 to calculate their dST and dHP. You could also calculate a Gear’s ST/HP from its mass. If you do calculate it yourself, double the ST to get a Gear’s HP.

Hnd/SR: The Gear’s Hnd is equal to its Maneuver score, either positive or negative. The Gear’s SR is equal to its SM+1. So, if it’s a SM+2 vehicle, its SR is 3.

HT: Gears are reasonably robust vehicles. The normal Heavy Gear will have a HT of 11. The Perk: Easy to Modify gives a +1 while the Flaw: Difficult to Modify gives a -1.

Move: Most Gears have two forms of movement. While reasonably interchangeable, it’s important to differentiate between the two. A gear will have two move stats, the first, for its legs, will be gathered from its primary movement top speed, and the second, its rollers, will be taken from its secondary movement top speed. Both, work the same way. The Gears acceleration is equal to its Top Speed in hexes and its move is equal to the kmph x .62 rounded conveniently, then halved.

LWt.: This is how heavy the Gear is, fully decked out. This value can be found in most of their description blocks.

Load: This is a good question. The only real value I can provide is 0.1 tons for the pilot. It varies.

SM: A Gear’s Size Modifier is based on its Heavy Gear size. A Size 6 Gear is SM+2 a Size 7 Gear is SM+3.

Occ.: From the Gear’s Crew slot, this is the Occupancy. For almost all Gears, the value is 1.

DR: A Gear’s DR is equal to 20 times its Armor Value. This is divided by 10 (or the AV is multiplied by 2) to determine the Gear’s dDR.

Range: This is the Gear’s Deployment Range in kilometers multiplied by .62 and rounded to a convenient number.

Cost: I’m still trying to find my conversion from marks/dinars into dollars. But, most Gear’s have their cost in Heavy Gear money listed.

Loc.: All Gears have 2A2Lt, Size 6 Gears will have 2W and Size 7 Gears will have 2C. A Gear will have an X for each weapon it carries.

Notes: Obviously, this is where you’d put information about your Fire Control, weapons, communications and anything else relevant.

More stuff:
Electronics: Sensors
The sensor value is how good the Gear’s sensors are, and what their effective range in kilometers. The first value, their quality value, can be either a positive or negative. This translates straight across into a bonus or penalty to the Electronics Operations (Sensors) roll to use the sensors.
Instead of any fancy conversion of kilometers into miles, the easiest way to handle the sensor range is simply to treat them as a meter-to-yard conversion. A Hunter, with a Sensor of 0/2km would have sensors that can see 2,000 yards with neither a bonus nor a penalty to function at that range.

Electronics: Communications
Much like Sensors, this is a reflection of how good the Gear’s communication system is as well as its range. The quality value, either positive or negative, translates straight across into a bonus or penalty to the Electronics Operation (Communication) roll to send/receive messages.
Again, instead of a fancy conversion of kilometers into miles, the Gear has an effective communications range of converted meters to yards. So, a Hunter with a Communications system of 0/10km would have a 10,000 yard range, with no bonus or penalty to function.

Electronics: Fire Control
This value tells you how advanced the Gear’s targeting system is. As a general GURPS rule, all Gears have a +3 targeting system bonus. The Fire Control value is applied as a bonus or penalty equal to twice its Heavy Gear rating. So, a Black Mamba’s Fire Control of +1 would be a total targeting system bonus of +5 (+2 from the Gear’s Fire Control stat of +1 and +3 from the basic GURPS targeting system bonus).


How does this sound to everyone?

[Mark Skarr]

Now, the conversion for a GURPS Weapons line.

TL: Once again, I’d just call this HG.

Weapon: This is the name of the weapon. Congratulations. Don’t need to reinvent the wheel. “Light Autocannon” (LAC)

Damage: This is the weapons Heavy Gear damage multiplier converted to dice, and divided by the armor divisor.
Ballistic weapons have an armor divisor of (2) and do pi++ damage.
Laser weapons will have an armor divisor of (2) and do burn damage.
Melee weapons will have an armor divisor of (2) and do cut damage.
Railgun weapons will have an armor divisor of (3) and do pi++ damage.
Rocket weapons will have an armor divisor of (3) and do cr ex damage.
Guided Missiles will have an armor divisor of (5) and do cr ex damage.
Particle Beams will have an armor divisor of (5) and do burn sur damage.
So, a LAC with its damage of x8, would be 4d (2) pi++.

Energy weapons (Lasers and Particle Beams) are subject to change as I get better ideas on how to implement their range diffusion.

Acc: This is the absolute value of the penalty on the range table for the weapon’s short range band (or base range), reduced by 5. So, a LAC, with its short range of 2 (100m) would be 5.

[edit]
Upon further reflection, I'm going to reduce the Acc by a further 1. The answer will be that the Gear's targeting system is treated like a Scanning Sense with Targeting, and if they lock on a target, and make an aimed attack, they get a +3 bonus instead of +2.
[/edit]

Range:
½D is the weapon’s Extreme Range Band, in meters.
Max is the three times the weapon’s Extreme Range Band, in meters.
The LAC’s Range would be 800/2,400.

Weight: This isn’t a stat that Heavy Gear uses, but, I’m sure I’ll figure something out based off the weapon’s min size.

RoF: If the ROF score in Heavy Gear is 0, then the RoF is 1. If the weapon is not a rocket/missile weapon and has an ROF of +1 or greater, the RoF value is equal to ten-times the ROF value. So, a LAC’s ROF of +2 would be a RoF of 20.

For rocket/missile weapons, the RoF is a doubling exercise. ROF +1 is RoF 2, ROF +2 is RoF 4, +3 is 8, +4 is 16, +5 is 32, et cetera.

Shots: This value is irrelevant as the Gear’s size compared to the weapon’s size tells you how much ammo it can carry.

ST: Again, I’ll have to do some math, but this’ll be based on the weapons min size.

Bulk: I’m really tempted to just call this the Weapon’s Min Size and go from there.

Rcl: Autocannons would have Rcl 3, pretty much everything else will have a Rcl of 1.

Cost: I’d start crying now . . .. Heavy Gear bases the cost of the Gear and weapons based on the final threat value.

LC: I’m betting most will be 0.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Cost: I’m still trying to find my conversion from marks/dinars into dollars.

GURPS doesn't technically use dollars it uses $s which are each about the value of a loaf of bread or one 2004(?) USD.

Which sort of mark or dinar are you using and from what year?

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

So, a Hunter with a Communications system of 0/10km would have a 10,000 yard range, with no bonus or penalty to function.

For big numbers the difference between yards and meters becomes noticeable. 11,000 yards would be a closer value in this case.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by lexington

Which sort of mark or dinar are you using and from what year?

A CNCS (Confederated Northern City States) Mark or an AST (Allied Southern Territories) Dinar from TN1936-45: Heavy Gear money.

Originally Posted by lexington

For big numbers the difference between yards and meters becomes noticeable. 11,000 yards would be a closer value in this case.

It really doesn’t matter. If everything suffers the same degradation, then it’s an even playing field. I’m basing my meters off the Game Metric listed in Characters on pg 9. I’m not saying that you can’t convert everything as close as possible, but you really don’t need to.

If I knew how to make it look pretty, I’d post tables for common Heavy Gear values converted to what they “need” to be converted to in GURPS.

The goal of the conversion is to make it easy and fast to convert. If you can convert meters to yards in your head, or km to miles, then, feel free. But, I’m providing simple values to make people’s lives easier.

It’s just a game.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

A CNCS (Confederated Northern City States) Mark or an AST (Allied Southern Territories) Dinar from TN1936-45: Heavy Gear money.

I see.

Well I guess the question would be are they ever used to price things that exist in the real world?

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

It really doesn’t matter. If everything suffers the same degradation, then it’s an even playing field. I’m basing my meters off the Game Metric listed in Characters on pg 9. I’m not saying that you can’t convert everything as close as possible, but you really don’t need to.

If I knew how to make it look pretty, I’d post tables for common Heavy Gear values converted to what they “need” to be converted to in GURPS.

The goal of the conversion is to make it easy and fast to convert. If you can convert meters to yards in your head, or km to miles, then, feel free. But, I’m providing simple values to make people’s lives easier.

It’s just a game.

I just asked Google to do the math for me, but I do see your point.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by lexington

Well I guess the question would be are they ever used to price things that exist in the real world?

In some of the horrifyingly bad D20 conversions, they list a dollar value for Gears. I just need to look at the concepts surrounding that and go from there. I just can’t do that at work.

Originally Posted by lexington

I just asked Google to do the math for me, but I do see your point.

As an exercise, it may be fun to do. But, to facilitate gaming, I’m going for easy.

I want to be able to grab any Heavy Gear book, find a Gear, and make notes in a few seconds, as opposed to having to sit down and convert stuff. I'm certain I could program a spreadsheet to convert Gears into GURPS, but that's not my goal.

[mlangsdorf]

Gears have had price values in the original DP9 books since... the Tech Manual? The original rulebook? Long time, that's for sure. All of the vehicle catalogs gave prices for the gears.

As I remember, it's roughly proportional to threat value divided by size, multiplied by a fudge factor based on the production class: mass produced Hunters are cheap (~$200K), limited production Black Mambas are more expensive (~$1M, I think?), and experimental single built prototype systems like the upgunned heavy armor Double Black Gold Cheetah A3 or whatever cost tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.

[OldSam]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

If you can convert meters to yards in your head, or km to miles, then, feel free.

I can :) ...no seriously, for game terms it's more than easy to convert yards to meters or meters to yards - they are (roughly) just the same. 1 yd = 1 m.
On the other hand 1 mile is roughly 1.5 km.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Gears have had price values in the original DP9 books since... the Tech Manual? The original rulebook? Long time, that's for sure. All of the vehicle catalogs gave prices for the gears.

Oh, yeah, they've had a price (in Marks/Dinars) since the first book. And it's TVx1,000.

Originally Posted by OldSam

I can :) ...no seriously, for game terms it's more than easy to convert yards to meters or meters to yards - they are (roughly) just the same. 1 yd = 1 m.
On the other hand 1 mile is roughly 1.5 km.

Congrats. I usually can as well (don't ask about the night I forgot how to divide by 6).
That's my point. It really isn't that big a deal. If you want to, feel free. But, my conversion is for people who are less concerned with the math and more concerned with playing.