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Old 10-12-2018, 10:01 AM   #11
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Default Re: running an inn: what skills?

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Originally Posted by SionEwig View Post
Just to throw this out there, but it might be very useful for someone on the staff (maybe the owner, maybe not) to have Scrounging at a reasonable level.
Oh, the owner has quite a substantial level of Scrounging, and is looking for a manager who has the same.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:30 AM   #12
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Default Re: running an inn: what skills?

Most of the pub landlords/managers that I'm aware of spend most of their time behind the bar so Professional Skill (Bartender) would seem sensible even if there are other bar staff. You would need to be quite a big operation before the manager gets to be full time back office.

I'm guessing that the inn's staff is likely to consist of something like the following:
  • 1 Landlord/manager - likely also tends bar and may be in charge of the brewing.
  • 1 cook - may also run the brewing if the landlord doesn't
  • 1 ostler - looks after the stable
  • a number of maids commensurate with the size of the place - their time being divided between working bar, waiting tables, looking after the sleeping quarters and assisting in the kitchen. They are likely to be sorted by skillset and seniority. Hostess work may be included, and less reputable establishments may offer other services.
  • a number of potboys commensurate with the size of the place - likely assisting in the kitchen, stable and bar and working as porters. Again, may specialise by skillset etc. May also provide hostess services in some establishments but probably less common.

...if that helps.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:51 AM   #13
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Default Re: running an inn: what skills?

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
The Majordomo: Provides the best service to the discriminating customer, which includes maintaining a harmonious working environment so there are no loud disputes or sullen staff. Skills: Diplomacy, Housekeeping, Merchant, Savoir-Faire (High Society), and Savoir-Faire (Servant).

The Yeoman: A no-nonsense type running a business on a road somewhere in the countryside. Considers the local farmers their peers; the inn, their home. Skills: Animal Handling, Carousing, Housekeeping, Intimidation, and Merchant.
I think that Nergul's intentions are largely the former, with a dash of the latter, in that she wants the building primarily as a home. On the other hand, I plan to have her need to deal with another ghoui who sees a ghoul-occupied building as an opportunity to move in and set up as the Panderer.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:16 AM   #14
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Default Re: running an inn: what skills?

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I'm not sure "Keep the business running and make sure it doesn't burn down while I'm gone" is any kind of skill. That's more a function of the NPCs loyalty/reaction roll to their boss, and general personality.
Lacking traits like SoD, Lazy, Compulsive Behavior (Workaholic) etc that would force the issue, the major game mechanic to me seems to be that loyalty.

Do we have rules in Social Engineering about maintaining a reaction roll during an extended absence?
Basically, it depends on loyalty. There aren't rules specifically for "I'm going away, but you're still working for me while I'm gone," but in general, anyone with Very Good or Excellent loyalty will still be there. With lower loyalty, the PC might come back to find a complicated situation. . . .

But what I'm looking at is not primarily *motivation* to adhere to the owner's doctrines and instructions. Rather, it's ability to *apply* them to novel situations. I suppose in a sense this is "savoir-faire" in the original meaning, but the GURPS usage often seems to be about social polish and impressing those above or below you in Rank or Status.

I'd also note that in talking about things like Code of Honor, I have in mind primarily the case of a roll for an involuntary relationship coming up as a 12 on 2d, giving automatic loyalty of 20. I don't think what Nergul is looking for could be covered by Slave Mentality, even though she's planning to buy a young ghoul woman from her mother or other older female relative; it's clear that she wants someone with initiative. But what I'm looking for is ethical or psychological traits that might result in total commitment to an unchosen relationship. I suppose Selfless might be one option, but I find it hard to imagine a ghoul woman as being Selfless; their default racial position is Selfish (12), and normal human cooperativeness is about as rare among them as Selfless is among humans. But Sense of Duty or Code of Honor might fit. If the question even comes up, of course; there's a good chance that the hireling will just accept being sold matter of factly as The Way Things Are, and perhaps be relieved when Nergul treats her somewhat generously.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:37 AM   #15
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Default Re: running an inn: what skills?

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Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post

Landlord/manager - likely also tends bar and may be in charge of the brewing.
Though that may be a curious English (possibly British) tradition. Over here – even Back In The Day – places to drink and places to spend the night, while sometimes called "inns" in both cases, weren't one and the same (in some cases by law). Thus, there wouldn't be a bar for the landlord to tend, with a need for ale for the landlord to brew.

Which isn't meant as a criticism at all! Rather, it underscores how important the surrounding culture is to the answer to the original question.
  • How much distinction is there between establishments for drinking, eating, spending the night, and possibly other things, like gaming and sex for hire?

  • Where these aren't combined, why is that? If it's the law, is the goal in this case to abide by the law or to try to break it on the sly? (The latter would call for Streetwise for sure!)

  • Where these are combined, what are the usual combinations? What are the unusual ones, and are they unusual enough to merit special skills? (E.g., if serving food and selling sex are both legal, and no law exists to forbid doing them in the same place, but custom sees that as "unclean," you might need a lot of Fast-Talk or even Propaganda: "Eat at Joe's! But not like you're thinking. Not at the same table, anyway.")

  • Which kinds of establishments are commonly found on long roads between cities and major towns? (That is, what goes on at a "roadhouse"?) Which are commonly found only in cities and major towns? Which are common to both?

  • In places that offer rooms, is the owner seen as a landlord, and clients as tenants, or is the lessor-lessee relationship legally distinct from the hotelier-guest relationship? That is, is a lease different from a hospitality contract?

  • What are the demographics of typical clients? (In some settings, only the wealthy can afford any of this; in others, the wealthy eat and stay with other wealthy people, in stately homes, and wouldn't dream of frequenting such a place, so such establishments cater to the lower or, if it exists, middle class.) And is any class legally excluded from being clients? (Some societies wouldn't let slaves eat or sleep at inns, except maybe in the stables.)

  • For that matter, is any class legally excluded from owning or working at inns, roadhouses, taverns, etc.? Or is running such places the preserve of specific castes?

  • Are there trade guilds for bartenders, innkeepers, and so on, that control who gets hired and possibly even provide an apprenticeship system that teaches at least minimal skills?
The answers to all these questions would affect skills, social traits, and possibly self-imposed mental disadvantages,
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: running an inn: what skills?

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
You could have Accounting-20, but if your boss with Diplomacy-12 is always micromanaging you, stopping by to ask how things are, encouraging group hugs and teambuilding, and so on, you're operating at Accounting-12.
I love it!

My experience is that at least big organizations are so consumed with discipline and accountability that it leads to a hierarchy totally obsessed with control and metrics regardless of the side effects. It doesn't matter what you really accomplish as much as having a paper trail that keeps your investors in denial. Of course, none of this is really a revelation that hasn't been satirized in depth by comics like Dilbert.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: running an inn: what skills?

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My experience is that at least big organizations are so consumed with discipline and accountability that it leads to a hierarchy totally obsessed with control and metrics regardless of the side effects. It doesn't matter what you really accomplish as much as having a paper trail that keeps your investors in denial. Of course, none of this is really a revelation that hasn't been satirized in depth by comics like Dilbert.
Back in the 1990s, I acquired a collected Dilbert. I read about half of it and couldn't endure any more. So I took it into work and placed it on our reference shelves.
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: running an inn: what skills?

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Originally Posted by Tom H. View Post

My experience is that at least big organizations are so consumed with discipline and accountability that it leads to a hierarchy totally obsessed with control and metrics regardless of the side effects. It doesn't matter what you really accomplish as much as having a paper trail that keeps your investors in denial. Of course, none of this is really a revelation that hasn't been satirized in depth by comics like Dilbert.
Yep.

My girlfriend works in human resources. She isn't just an HR employee or even the HR director of the local branch, but the HR director for all the branches in the entire province. Even setting aside my feelings for her, this seniority, two degrees, and a two-decade career suggest that just maybe she's pretty good at what she does. I'm not saying she has Professional Skill (HR)-20, but she gets head-hunted all the time, so I'd say 15 wouldn't be unfair.

Except . . .

She constantly has her efforts diverted to tasks I'd characterize as "group hugs and teambuilding"; e.g., arranging birthday parties in the workplace, issuing holiday greeting cards, and days devoted to literal teambuilding games. Moreover, she gets micromanaged; one recent document went through 19 revisions at the "add a comma" level, which is a degree of fussiness I can't fathom despite being an editor. And there's an institutional obsession with ethics and accountability that has led to decisions like "Since work from home exposes the employer to claims that accidents at home are workplace accidents, nobody is allowed to work from home, however efficient they are." Consequently, her HR work has a tendency to fall behind and pile up.

So her skill is capped at whatever the average Administration skill is in her organization, which seems to be in the 10-12 range on most days. The more senior staff who are ill or on vacation, the closer she works to her full potential.
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Old 10-12-2018, 02:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: running an inn: what skills?

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It might be a modern thing, but my experience has been that most people prefer an absent boss. In effect that lets them be their own boss (whether or not they officially have a free hand). I'd represent that in the game by capping any skill the employee has at the level of the social skill the boss is using for management. You could have Accounting-20, but if your boss with Diplomacy-12 is always micromanaging you, stopping by to ask how things are, encouraging group hugs and teambuilding, and so on, you're operating at Accounting-12.
I kind of like that. I have had experience where a certain personality/style of boss gets in the way rather than enables a more productive work environment.
I have thought for awhile now GURPS could use more skill cap type skills
Its a mechanic we already have that could use expansion.

PS: Cribbing that innkeeper type/lens list for my campaign. Its a good start on a fast way to build an Inn as my players travel.
Also DF: Fantasy 10: Taverns seems like it should be mentioned in this thread, Chapter 1 I think is useful here.
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Last edited by Refplace; 10-12-2018 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: running an inn: what skills?

Repairing/replacing equipment and acquiring supplies hasn't been covered yet. Depending on the setting this may involve the appropriate craft or farming skills* or possibly just area knowledge (local business)

*possibly just housekeeping
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