10-15-2018, 07:01 AM | #81 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Killing PCs
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And this isn't even limited to the capabilities of gods or superpowered adversaries. It could apply just as well to the random orcs or tavern brawlers the PCs run into by chance, who were never written up because the encounter wasn't planned.
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
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10-15-2018, 07:44 AM | #82 |
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
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Re: Killing PCs
With regard to PC death, I had generally shied away from them as GM in the past, but over the recent few years most of my players have made it clear that, at least in DF, they like PC deaths, or at least the strong possibility of PC deaths. It adds an element of danger and challenge to the game, and it keeps everyone on their toes.
I never plan the deaths, I just throw really powerful enemies and dangerous situations at the party. They usually find a way to survive despite my best efforts (at this point they're all 500+ points with HT 16+), but once in a while bad dice happen, or the players have terrible tactics, or the enemies focus all their attacks on one PC because he is perceived as the greatest threat. Over ~60 sessions we've had 6 PCs die, one of whom was subsequently resurrected. Three of those deaths occurred when the party was weaker (<200 points) and the margin for error was much smaller. These days I have to work really hard to make death even remotely possible, given how well-prepared the party is for every possible eventuality. (More ideas for how to actually threaten an ultra-powerful DF party are welcome!) |
10-15-2018, 08:20 AM | #83 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Killing PCs
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An example of something I did once. A PC lead a group of security guards against a group of rioters. I impromptu decided to have the PC roll Shortsword and Shield and apply the combined MoS against 3d6 damage. The difference was how much injury his side took (the PC got to determine if they took the brunt of the wounds or the squad did). The PC at this point had neither Shortsword nor Shield, since this was an 'amnesia' chargen session they got to chose whether they had Shortsword or Shield at DX+4, the other would be at DX (their DX was 14). Through this the Player not only decided whether defense or offense was more important... but what type of leader the Character was (from the front, or from the rear). |
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10-15-2018, 09:20 AM | #84 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Killing PCs
As a side-note tot eh side-thread about stats and killing of npcs I may have seen the reverse.
In Paizo's Skull & Shackles Adventure Path there was an encounter where the PC pirates boarded a ship crewed by npcs. The crew fought but the npc Captain didn't. When one of us tried to attack the Captain the GM told us "You can't do that. He has no stats.". The GM was quite bewildered by the whole thing. He certainly had no idea of what stats an npc Captain _should_ have. I think that the principle we ended up with was that if an entity had no stats it was unable to oppose the PCs in any direct way. So we went up to him and said "Arrr!" and he surrendered. My general rule is that if I don't want to have an npc die is combat with the PCs I don't have him come in weapons or pursuit range. Some modules have had incorrect ideas abot what that range was too. In an underwater encounter in one module there was an fishman npc who was about a Sergeant on the Evil npc rank table. He was hovering on the edge of the encounter zone but was not supposed to fight the PCs until the next enounter. He was just there to taunt the PCs. He may have thought he was out of rnage but the PC mage turned into a water eleemntal and not only chased him down but beat him like a red-headed stepchild. If you don't want your PCs to kil your bad guys, keep them off-stage.
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Fred Brackin |
10-15-2018, 10:28 AM | #85 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Killing PCs
I already specified that I don't stat a lot of things up until I need the stats. There's a difference between "stats are missing until I know whether I need them" and "stats are missing because they're irrelevant", though.
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10-15-2018, 11:25 AM | #86 | |
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Re: Killing PCs
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Still, I have heard of some similiar situations, and it boils down to two problems. Firstly, some supposedly really powerful beings are given stats which are way worse than they should be. This is just a matter of the given stats being very bad, which can be problematic for creatures of any power level. This can be solved just be giving reasonable stats to such beings. Secondly, D&D (at least in some editions, including 3.5) has RAW which allows for ludicrusly powerful characters given the right builds. There is virtually no limit to this. Not giving stats isn't a good solution to this. Not only can such characters reach levels of power which should allow them to challenge plot device level beings, they are actually powerful enough that RAW might allow them to challenge even beings without stats (the ice assassin 3.5 spell for example, which allows you to get loyal copies of any creature with a limitation on targets which can be bypassed in various ways). This can be solved either by changing the rules which makes such overpowered builds possible, or just by the GM not approving such characters. |
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10-15-2018, 11:36 AM | #87 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Killing PCs
Well, perhaps. But I think a lot of people are assuming that "has stats" means "has a complete set of standard character-type stats worked out before the character/entity is introduced into play for the first time." And if you're not addressing that (and perhaps you agree that it's not necessarily), then your response may be addressing the verbal form of their statements but not the actual intent.
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
10-15-2018, 12:48 PM | #88 | |||||
Forum Pervert
(If you have to ask . . .) Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somewhere high up.
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Re: Killing PCs
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10-15-2018, 01:13 PM | #89 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Killing PCs
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Actually, it's a professional skill; for more than thirty years, I have been reading articles and books by scholars in a wide range of fields, and saying to myself, "Okay, that doesn't seem clear. What could they have meant to say in this passage that makes sense, and how can I say it more clearly?"
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
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10-15-2018, 01:33 PM | #90 |
Stick in the Mud
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rural Utah
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Re: Killing PCs
As this thread is not specifically GURPS related, I have moved it to Roleplaying in General.
Also, a reminder to keep things civil.
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MIB #1457 |
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