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Old 10-12-2018, 01:44 PM   #11
ericthered
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Designing the best possible fleet on a billion-dollar budget

So no fully automated ships that travel through the void independently? I was thinking about building a fleet of ion-propelled boulders with missile launchers attatched to them, and at the sizes I'm looking at, requiring bioroids on them cuts down the cost efficiency by around a third.
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Old 10-12-2018, 02:33 PM   #12
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Designing the best possible fleet on a billion-dollar budget

In my experience, 10 rounds of space combat is usually sufficient for a KO.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:50 PM   #13
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Designing the best possible fleet on a billion-dollar budget

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
In my experience, 10 rounds of space combat is usually sufficient for a KO.
Oh certainly. It's only relevant situations where the big frickin laser can theoretically puncture the armor of the other ship if you target weak points in the armor and roll high on the damage roll. If 10 rounds of that can't destroy the enemy fleet, it's time to move the fleets closer.
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Designing the best possible fleet on a billion-dollar budget

Testing, Testing Testing the missile defenses of your fleet.

Fleet 999.92 million total cost

This is a test of a cheap carrier packed full of drones armed with nukes and the drones working as missiles themselves if needed.

1 carrier

SM+11 30,000 tons Unstreamlined $223.02 million total including fuel and bio drones.

Front:
1-3 armor, steel, hardened total dDR 45 ($36 mil)
4-6 hangar $3mil 3 crew 1000 tons each
core: smaller systems:
habitat $3mil 1crew 60 cabin spaces; 10 sick bay, total life support: 15 bunk, 10 stateroom
control $20mil 11 crew computer 9, sensor/comm 9
cargo fuel tank 500tons water 3 mil 0 crew 6.67 mps Delta-v

Middle:
1 armor, steel, hardened total dDR 15 ($12 mil)
2-6 hangar bays $3mil 3 crew 1000 tons each
core: cargo (no real use, just cannot place anything needed in core)

Rear:
1 armor, steel, hardened total dDR 15 ($12 mil)
2-5: hangar bays $3mil 3 crew 1000 tons each
6 smaller systems;
Fusion Rocket, uses water 100mil 1 crew 0.005g
fuel tank 500tons water 3 mil 0 crew 6.67 mps Delta-v
hangar bay: 1 mil 1 crew, 300 tons

60 biodrones: 12 million (cabin space and life suppor for 80)
fuel: 1000 tons water $0.02 mil

Notes:
-The cargo holds are extra, but cannot place hangars in core and cannot afford more fuel tanks... In a more realistic design some of these would be more fuel tanks for the main craft and drones and minor part likely for ammunition resupply for missile drones, but cannot afford such either.
-Has no weapons or other fighting capacity. When enemies near tries to keep distance and will be in formation with some point defense drones so they work as missile defense.
-Crew is 10 bridge, 10 medical/damage control extras, 40 module crews available for damage control.
-Even a smaller drive is expensive, being 10% of the total task force cost. Unfortunately the design system does not allow even smaller systems.

Drones: 1230 total 10 ton drones.

750 missile drones

Sm 4, 10 tons unstreamlined $562.82million total cost of all with indicated missile armament and fuel. $750.42k each with indicated missile armament and fuel.

Front:
1-4 armor: Advanced Metallic Laminate dDR 3 each=12 total cost $20k each
5 armor: light alloy cost $5k each dDR 1
6 missile launcher:16cm $100k Note: only loaded with 3-4 25kton nuclear missiles.
core control $10k (C6 computer, comm/sensor 4, and no control stations).

Middle:
1 armor: Advanced Metallic Laminate dDR 3 cost $20k each
2 armor: light alloy cost $5k each
3 major weapon:UV Laser turret $100k, dual use: point defense and attacking drones.
4-6: fuel tank $3k each 0.5tons of HEDM fuel
core MHD Turbine $5k

Rear:
1 armor: Advanced Metallic Laminate dDR 3 cost $20k each
2 armor: light alloy cost $5k each
3-5: fuel tank $3k each 0.5tons of HEDM fuel
6 Drive HEDM $20k

fuel $18k total 3.6mps Delta-v
missiles 344.42k 3.76*25kton nuke missiles each.
Whole task force missile load: 2818 missiles total cost:$258.32mil or a 1/4 of the full budget and still not enough for full magazines.

Notes:
-The main striker against capital ships.
-Externally and performance-wise the same as other drones to no show what to target, thus extra mass used for a cheap internal extra armor belt.
-Only carries 3-4 missiles, all 25kton nukes as missiles are expensive. They are meant to be reserved for use against enemy capital ships only.
-the MHD powerplant is over powered but used for parts commonality with other drones.
-Also used as expendable missile itself by ramming if needed if large argets left after missiles used.

240 gunship drones

Sm 4, 10 tons unstreamlined $107.04 million total cost of all with fuel. $446k each with fuel.

Front:
1-4 armor: Advanced Metallic Laminate dDR 3 each=12 total cost $20k each
5 MHD Turbine $5k
6 spinal weapon: Particle beam $150k total
core control $10k (C6 computer, comm/sensor 4, and no control stations).

Middle:
1 armor: Advanced Metallic Laminate dDR 3 cost $20k each
2 MHD Turbine $5k
3 major weapon:UV Laser turret $100k very rapid fire(for missile defense)
4-6: fuel tank $3k each 0.5tons HEDM fuel
core: spinal weapon

Rear:
1 armor: Advanced Metallic Laminate dDR 3 cost $20k each
2 spinal weapon:
3-5: fuel tank $3k each 0.5tons HEDM fuel
6 Drive HEDM $20k

fuel $18k total 3.6 mps Delta-v

Notes:
-The main drone killer, the spinal particle beam is fairly good against any drone class and other light targets.
-Also used as expendable missile itself by ramming if needed when large targets left after missiles used by the missile drones.
-All missile drone formations have many of these from close in drone defense, with some part used as a separate "sweep the enemy drones" away task force.

240 point defense drones

Sm 4, 10 tons unstreamlined $107.04 million total cost of all with fuel. $446k each with fuel.

Front:
1-4 armor: Advanced Metallic Laminate dDR 3 each=12 total cost $20k each
5 MHD Turbine $5k
6 spinal weapon: UV Laser $150k total
core control $10k (C6 computer, comm/sensor 4, and no control stations).

Middle:
1 armor: Advanced Metallic Laminate dDR 3 cost $20k each
2 MHD Turbine $5k
3 major weapon:UV Laser turret $100k very rapid fire(for missile defense)
4-6: fuel tank $3k each 0.5tons HEDM fuel
core: spinal weapon

Rear:
1 armor: Advanced Metallic Laminate dDR 3 cost $20k each
2 spinal weapon:
3-5: fuel tank $3k each 0.5tons HEDM fuel
6 Drive HEDM $20k

fuel $18k total 3.6 mps Delta-v

Notes:
-Also used as expendable missile itself by ramming if needed when large targets left after missiles used by the missile drones.
-All the formations have these as missile defense and long range, but low power, firepower.


The ships are likely in something like:
30 attack formations with 25 missile drones, 4 gunship drones, 4 point defense drones each. Going after enemy capital ships.
4 drone sweep formations with 29 gunship drones, 4 point defense drones each. Going after enemy drones.
1 carrier formation: 1 carrier, 4 gunship drones 104 point defense drones. Staying as far as possible. The point defense and gunship drones give the carrier the defensive firepower.

The missile drones are the main threat for enemy large ships and the gunships for enemy drones/fighters, the carrier is just basically a big target...

Edit: change to really expensive drive for the carrier due to the high d-v required by the rules. This forces the missile drones to be even more underloaded, with only 3 full salvos and one smaller salvo, but those 750 nukes/salvo should still be too much for most any point defense that does not have similar numbers of drones as remote weapon platforms.

Edit 2: Fixed weapon moduleprices and changed to HEDM drives and fuel, they are explosive and less D-V but less expensive by far, allowing few more nuclear missiles to be carried in total.
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Last edited by weby; 10-15-2018 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 10-13-2018, 09:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Designing the best possible fleet on a billion-dollar budget

@weby: I like going all-in on drones, but like Fred you've mixed up antimatter-catalyzed and antimatter-boosted fuel. The one the antimatter plasma rocket uses is prohibitively expensive.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:25 PM   #16
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Designing the best possible fleet on a billion-dollar budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
@weby: I like going all-in on drones, but like Fred you've mixed up antimatter-catalyzed and antimatter-boosted fuel. The one the antimatter plasma rocket uses is prohibitively expensive.
Yeah, I do not normally use such reaction drives.. so switched to much more expensive engine forcing larger under loading of missile drones, but should still be more than enough nukes.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Designing the best possible fleet on a billion-dollar budget

I was sick this weekend, so I was a bit slow to tackle this. Weby, not sure I follow your math for missile costs? A 16cm missile weighs 1/15th of a ton, and missiles costs $1M/ton, so a conventional 16cm missile costs ~$67K. A nuclear warhead adds $50K, so that's $117K per missile. So 2,716 missiles should cost ~$317M. I also don't think you have the cost for the missile launchers right—unless this has been errata'd, SM+4 major batteries cost $100K. (Yes, this breaks the usual rule for pricing SM+4 systems for no apparent reason.)
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:01 PM   #18
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Designing the best possible fleet on a billion-dollar budget

Particularly relevant to weby's design: under Wait (Point Defense) on Spaceships p. 53, it says, "You can opt to use only some of your RoF; if so, you may attack again with unused shots against further incoming ballistic attacks before the start of your next turn." That seems to imply there is no penalty for splitting your shots between incoming ballistic attacks. Is anyone aware of any reason to think otherwise? Would be good to be clear on before I try to write up some scripts to automate the resolution of an insane several-hundred-drone battle.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:40 AM   #19
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Designing the best possible fleet on a billion-dollar budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
I was sick this weekend, so I was a bit slow to tackle this. Weby, not sure I follow your math for missile costs? A 16cm missile weighs 1/15th of a ton, and missiles costs $1M/ton, so a conventional 16cm missile costs ~$67K. A nuclear warhead adds $50K, so that's $117K per missile. So 2,716 missiles should cost ~$317M. I also don't think you have the cost for the missile launchers right—unless this has been errata'd, SM+4 major batteries cost $100K. (Yes, this breaks the usual rule for pricing SM+4 systems for no apparent reason.)
I think that 16cm missiles weigh 1/10th of a ton, just like 16cm conventional shells, so 2,716 missiles would cost $271.6M plus $135.8M if they possess 25 kiloton warheads, for a total of $407.4M.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:51 AM   #20
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Designing the best possible fleet on a billion-dollar budget

Honestly, drones are better off using HEDM chemical engines. They are relatively cheap and allow for high thrust. An SM+4 drone could just have one HEDM engine, one control room, three sections of armor, five missile ranks with 16cm nuclear missiles, and ten fuel tanks of HEDM fuel and it is a potent threat (with 2g acceleration, it is capable of reaching of reaching 7 mps delta-v). You could have them on an SM+10 carrier, carry only 80 of them, and have a greater volley of 400 per turn.
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