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Old 05-18-2018, 04:06 PM   #11
Minuteman37
 
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
There are a lot of cases where the increased resolution of fractional Acc could come into play. These are primarily cases where a fractional bonus (normally rounded off) would be involved. An Acc 3 weapon cannot benefit from purchased match ammo, for example (3*1.25=3.75, which rounds down to 3), but an Acc 3.25 weapon could. A 6x scope would arguably be +2.5 to Acc, so with an Acc 4.5 weapon would give +7 to hit, rather than the +6 that would occur with the normal scheme. Fractional Rcl also interacts here - with an Acc 5.5, Rcl 3.5 weapon, you can retain the fraction when working out MoS, so that you could have a success by 3.5 that lands an additional hit.

Granted, these are edge cases, but if Minuteman doesn’t mind the added complexity, fractional stats may be worth it, if only for making more distinctions between weapons.
Took the words right out of my mouth Varyon, but I'm not even asking for fractional acc stats. I just wanted to round some of the more accurate Acc 5 rifles up to 6 to distinguish them from their less accurate fellows.
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Old 05-18-2018, 06:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
Any sniper approaching world record shots comes to mind. Considering the current record is a confirmed kill from over 2 miles away, accuracy does matter.
One thing we don't know is how many shots at that range are taken, but miss. That shot could've been by a sniper needing a '4' and getting it, or from a sniper needing only to not roll a '17+'.

With an Acc 5 rifle a 2 mile shot, assuming the limit on effective skill is in place, the maximum chance is 12-, which is hardly poor. With an x8 power scope (so a standard x3-x9 varipower hunting scope will do), bracing, etc., the shooter needs skill-20 to hit this, without needing any of the optional rules for taking extra aim time, etc.

While accuracy certainly does matter, in GURPS this shot isn't out of reach for a good shooter using a quite mundane rifle. The real difficulty comes in if the rules for bullet flight time are used, and at that point there's a lot of luck involved - Does the wind behave right? Does the target move at just the wrong time, and in an unexpected direction?
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:51 AM   #13
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

On the accuracy thing:
GURPS acc 5 is kind of strange, as it encompasses rifles that had manufacturing tolerances where 40cm groups at 300m are acceptable(typical ww2 service rifles) to those where sub 10cm groups are expected at the same range(modern rifles).
In fact you expect a cheap rifle today to be much better than the accepted standards of ww2 service rifles and would likely return the rifle as unacceptable if it shot at the lower range of the accepted ww2 service rifles.
Also mass produced ammunition is much more precisely loaded and with much more precise powder characteristics than in ww2.

So I would argue that we start to be at a stage where the manufacturing advances have made fine(accurate) weapons the standard at no extra cost in the same way as the rule for TL 7+ melee weapons being fine by standard.

Also the cost addition for standard match ammo should likely be lower today, as the high quality ammo is only few times more expensive than low quality.

I find the very low accuracies of TL 9 rifle type weapons specially questionable in UT. A hunting rifle with acc 4 is.. "interesting" as is the acc 4 sniper rifle.
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:36 AM   #14
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

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Originally Posted by weby View Post
I find the very low accuracies of TL 9 rifle type weapons specially questionable in UT. A hunting rifle with acc 4 is.. "interesting" as is the acc 4 sniper rifle.
If you mean the TL10 10mm gauss gun that's been errated up to 7+scope.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
If you mean the TL10 10mm gauss gun that's been errated up to 7+scope.
No, I mean the TL 9 conventional firearms.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

The problem is that GURPS Acc is a hybrid of a bunch of factors that aren't realistically all that well correlated, and are set to a low value mostly so accuracy under combat conditions isn't unrealistically high. This means it produces unrealistic results when used under other conditions, including the firing range. Under most combat conditions, actual bullet dispersion (accuracy) is not a major contribution to missing.
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:27 PM   #17
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

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Originally Posted by weby View Post
No, I mean the TL 9 conventional firearms.
There's no table entry for "sniper rifle" among the TL9 conventional firearms. The 15mm Anti-Material Rifle that's primarily discussed in that role is AC 6+3. It can use guided rounds too.

The 10mm Storm Rifle is said briefly at the end of its' text section to be used as a hunting or sniper weapon but I would suggest that it would be chosen for its' damage in those roles. Or to use guided rounds at TL10.

Plenty of Real world "snipers" have used unmodified AK-47s and those are ACC 4. Probably selected for their availability only.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: Wanting Some Higher Resolution Gun Stats

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Originally Posted by weby View Post
No, I mean the TL 9 conventional firearms.
The storm rifle was errata’d to ACC 5. Keep in mind that this is a round comparable to .408 Cheytac in a semiauto rifle.
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