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Old 09-27-2018, 08:05 PM   #1
Skarg
 
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Default Need for average stats for non-humans

I understand giving 32-point starting levels for PCs who want to be Goblins, Gargoyles, or Reptile Men (for players who are concerned about starting out "equal" to other starting PCs). But the new Creatures section leaves out information for GMs about average members of those races to populate his world. New GMs may tend to think that the average members of these races are also 30 point characters, though that was not at all the case in original TFT. (Though I haven't read all of the new ITL yet, I assume it would be here in the Creatures section if it existed.)

Seems like this is missing information from the Creatures section.
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Old 09-28-2018, 08:40 AM   #2
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Need for average stats for non-humans

I think the new suggestion of ~30 points as a normal human is a good guide, and extends in an obvious way to dwarves, elves and orcs. For the others, you would not do badly to just knock a couple of points off their pool of assignable stat points. I'd say reducing that pool by 4 points would result in a pretty disadvantaged NPC (someone who is really young, old, infirm, etc.), 2 would result in a typical person, 0 is a person of significant native ability (like a PC), and anything above 0 is someone to be reckoned with.

By they way, I think the suggestion that PC's start at 25 for the 'funnel' rules suggested in the Pyramid is way too low. Such characters are almost unplayable unless you make up a bunch of unique rules that only apply to them. To my mind the funnel should start at 28 if you want them all to be goofs and 29 or 30 if you want them to be normal adults. It sounds like quibbling over a few points, but just try to play test a 25 point character and see how far you get.
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Old 09-28-2018, 10:07 AM   #3
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Need for average stats for non-humans

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I think the new suggestion of ~30 points as a normal human is a good guide, ...
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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
... and extends in an obvious way to dwarves, elves and orcs.
It's not a new suggestion - it's in the original ITL.

Yes, since dwarves, elves and orcs have always been 32 points as starting PCs.


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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
For the others, you would not do badly to just knock a couple of points off their pool of assignable stat points. I'd say reducing that pool by 4 points would result in a pretty disadvantaged NPC (someone who is really young, old, infirm, etc.), 2 would result in a typical person, 0 is a person of significant native ability (like a PC), and anything above 0 is someone to be reckoned with.
For goblins, yes.

For the others, NO.

PC Gargoyles in original ITL were ST 16 DX 11 IQ 8 (35 points for a typical gargoyle), not to mention flying and the stone skin. In old and new basic Melee, and the spell Summon Garygoyle in Wizard, and ITL (which it says summons "a regular Gargoyle" they are ST 20, DX 11 IQ 8 (39 points).

Reptile Men in original ITL are 38 points.

Also note that the body sizes for these have not changed. "About seven feet tall, heavily built, with shining scales, heavy claws, powerful jaws, and a large tail, a reptile man is formidable indeed." New ITL PC 32-point gargoyles and reptile men are weaklings compared to their regular folk. Clever new GMs may notice this for gargoyles since they are listed in other places, but reptile men, not so much.

It's clearly an omission, or else these are new diminutive sub-species.

Last edited by Skarg; 09-28-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 10-01-2018, 07:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Need for average stats for non-humans

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
PC Gargoyles in original ITL were ST 16 DX 11 IQ 8 (35 points for a typical gargoyle), not to mention flying and the stone skin. In old and new basic Melee, and the spell Summon Garygoyle in Wizard, and ITL (which it says summons "a regular Gargoyle" they are ST 20, DX 11 IQ 8 (39 points).

Reptile Men in original ITL are 38 points.

Also note that the body sizes for these have not changed. "About seven feet tall, heavily built, with shining scales, heavy claws, powerful jaws, and a large tail, a reptile man is formidable indeed." New ITL PC 32-point gargoyles and reptile men are weaklings compared to their regular folk. Clever new GMs may notice this for gargoyles since they are listed in other places, but reptile men, not so much.
I agree. I think that Gargoyles and Lizardmen should be more powerful starting off. As far as ALL the players wanting to play these bad-ass creatures just wasn't the case in my groups. They would select them if they felt a whim or a need, but it was rarely done.

and TFT isn't about mini-maxing anyways.
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Old 10-01-2018, 08:28 PM   #5
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Default Re: Need for average stats for non-humans

You guys know what I think. Justice for reptile men!
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Old 10-01-2018, 08:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Need for average stats for non-humans

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You guys know what I think. Justice for reptile men!
Having to face human justice at every turn for just being born a reptile should be worth a few points.
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Old 10-08-2018, 01:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Need for average stats for non-humans

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and TFT isn't about mini-maxing anyways.
Wha?!?!?!? No being a Munchkin in TFT?!?!? ;)
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Old 10-08-2018, 07:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Need for average stats for non-humans

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Wha?!?!?!? No being a Munchkin in TFT?!?!? ;)
No! But maybe there will be a TFT in Munchkin soon.
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