Negative HP and its effects

[Phex]

I have a question concerning injuries.

When a character has HP in the range between 0 and -1xHP, he has to suffer from the following effect: "make a HT roll at the start of your next turn ... Failure means you fall unconscious. Success means you can act normally, but must roll again every turn to continue functioning." (B419) On the other hand, when he eventually falls unconsicous and awakes after one or more hours, the rules state that "you can act normally. You do not have to roll against HT every second to remain conscious unless you receive new injury." (B234)

This means that there are basically two health states in which a character can be when his hit points are in the range of 0 and -1xHP:
1.) Freshly injured and not been unconsicous: The character has to make a HT roll to act as described above to not fall unconsicous and is therefore harshly disabled.
2.) After unconsicousness: The character can basically act as if he had HP between 0 and 1/3xHP as long as he does not receive a new injury.

Similar rules also hold true for lower health with the additional chance of death and the possibility of not waking from unconsciousness.

Is this correct? If yes, isnt it in some situations desirable for a character to fall unconsicous to transfer from state 1.) to state 2.)? Also, is there another possibility instead of falling unconscious (e. g., resting for a certain amount of time) to transfer from state 1.) to state 2.)?

[Varyon]

I'd either disregard the existence of state 2 (once you're below HP 1, doing anything strenuous can be a bad idea) or allow someone who rests for half an hour or so to switch from state 1 to state 2.

[Bruno]

Falling unconscious doesn't transfer you from state 1) to state 2). It transfers you to "unconscious", which is worse than either because you don't even get a dice roll to see if you can keep acting.

It's not "a light nap" either, you don't recover in seconds just because someone shouted at you.

Eventually you go from unconscious to state 2. If you haven't passed out, sleeping or otherwise "bed resting" would do as an equivalent - but you'd still need to be "out" for at least an hour before I'd let you get up and limp around.

Or someone can use really good First Aid, magic, ultratech, psi, or whatever on you and fix you :) I confess I play in Fantasy games so that players have the option of trading the "incapacitated by injury" condition for resources.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Phex

Is this correct?

I think yes.

Originally Posted by Phex

If yes, isnt it in some situations desirable for a character to fall unconsicous to transfer from state 1.) to state 2.)?

A common example being, it often prevents you from taking even more damage because you're not staying in the fight.

Originally Posted by Phex

Also, is there another possibility instead of falling unconscious (e. g., resting for a certain amount of time) to transfer from state 1.) to state 2.)?

I would argue that if you simply Do Nothing, then after an hour you should still get the HT roll to see if you move from state 1.) to state 2.). I would also argue that if you wish, you can simply surrender to unconsciousness instead of trying to make a HT roll to stay awake.

[corwyn]

Another thing to remember:

When a PC first goes into State 1, it's because some opponent is trying to transfer him into state Dead. So staying awake to either kill the bad guy or get to a place of safety is a good thing.

What we do after entering state 1 is allow a pc who succeeds on 3 consecutive stay awake rolls while Doing Nothing to be considered stable as long as he continues to do nothing until he gets first aid/rest. That way, at the end of the fight, it's possible to have them just be walking wounded instead of unconscious. We also allow a movement of 1 hex while Doing Nothing - not RAW, I know, but a bit more forgiving and allows for a choice, move 1 hex automatically, or risk a HT roll to move at half speed.

[Balor Patch]

Originally Posted by Phex

1.) Freshly injured and not been unconsicous: The character has to make a HT roll to act as described above to not fall unconsicous and is therefore harshly disabled.

It isn't needing to make the roll that disables the character, it's failing it. As long as he hasn't failed it he's one Great Healing potion from ready to fight. After he's failed it he's totally out for 15 minutes even if healed.

There's a good magic item: IV of Caffeine (Power 1, Awaken) for $16K at DF prices.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Phex

This means that there are basically two health states in which a character can be when his hit points are in the range of 0 and -1xHP:
1.) Freshly injured and not been unconsicous: The character has to make a HT roll to act as described above to not fall unconsicous and is therefore harshly disabled.
2.) After unconsicousness: The character can basically act as if he had HP between 0 and 1/3xHP as long as he does not receive a new injury.

You are overlooking the state in between your listed two, unconsciousness. You can't reach post-unconsciousness without passing through it. As unconsciousness is usually viewed as an undesirable thing in unsafe surroundings, characters will want to stay in the pre-unconsciousness state as long as possible, while hoping for healing or a transfer to a safe environment.

[Phex]

Thank you for your answers and hints.

I do not think that a transition between the two above-mentioned states of injury is always undesired. Imagine that the PCs survived an encounter, but with one PC in state 1.), i. e., freshly injured with HP between 0 and -1xHP. If the PCs want to continue their crawl through the dungeon, it is more favorable if the disabled PC is again able to walk and act. Thus, if they have no suitable supernatural/ultra-tech support to heal him, they want to bring the disabled PC from state 1.) to state 2.), i. e., HP between 0 and -1xHP after unconsciousness.

I was just hoping that there is another possibility by the rules which states how long the injured PC had to wait/rest/sleep before he can perform the transition between the two states as if he had fallen unconscious. But this does not seem to be the case. However, a reasonable house rule seems to be that the unconsciousness time can also be replaced by continuous resting/sleeping time.

[namada]

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[malloyd]

Originally Posted by fartrader

The same rule, B419, tells you:
Exception: If you choose Do Nothing on your turn, and do not attempt any defense rolls, you can remain conscious without rolling. Roll only on turns during which you attempt a defense roll or choose a maneuver other than Do Nothing.

This means, when combat is over, there are no more turns, and no more maneuvers, hence you no longer need to roll. You're making the roll to stay conscious because you're fighting for your life and are that critically injured. You transition to state 2 automatically.

The thing that makes these discordant is that "normally" in state two. These *ought* to be the same state - i.e. you don't have to roll to stay conscious except on a turn you do anything strenuous (and taking any combat action, including attempting defense rolls counts). Phrased like that, the distinction goes away, but you are considerably more restricted than "act normally" implies.