Speeding up melee combat? No surprise...

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Not from the rules. Some people really want IQ to be linked to real world statistics and measurements somehow. I'm never clear what "real world intelligence" is supposed to be, anyways.

Well, this particular thing at least avoids asserting any particular real-world metric. Just that it's one-dimensional...

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by hal

So - the one way to avoid having issues with time spent in a combat simulation between two characters with skill 18 in all the critical combat skills - is to remember that a LOT of the characters SHOULD be around at best, skill 14 or so, and the legendary ones shouldn't be at skill 22!

Why would 18 skills be a problem? Deceptive Attack means that defenses are actually weaker with all skills high than with them low, because skill-based defense increases are canceled out and Dodge gets knocked out as collateral damage.

[hal]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Why would 18 skills be a problem? Deceptive Attack means that defenses are actually weaker with all skills high than with them low, because skill-based defense increases are canceled out and Dodge gets knocked out as collateral damage.

If there are a lot of "Experts" about with skill level 18, so be it. GURPS originally started with the premise that skill 18 represents something of an expert. It sort of causes problems if everyone is an expert and few are neophytes no?

In all - how one uses GURPS is up to them. I try not to come across as disapproving of other's desires simply because some like storytelling over simulation, some like simulation over story telling, and some few want BOTH. In the end, when we discuss ides on the forums, we are offering freely (ie at no cost to the reader reading this) our ideas, opinions, or even thoughts on what we think may be issues that we hope to resolve even if we can't ourselves, come up with a solution.

The so called cult of stat normalization can look at the material presented in some of Sean Punch's work and think "See, he gets it, he tells us what a given stat means in GURPS TEMPLATE TOOLKIT 1 CHARACTERS (see page 9). Elsewhere, we see that skill levels are supposed to mean on page 12.

So, it all depends on what the GM places on the stage of action for his players or against his players at any given time.

There was once a GM who LOVED the human wave attacks as encounters in a campaign we were playing in. By the time our characters had slain 200 or so tribal hunter/warrior NPC's, I looked at the GM and said "Don't you think they'd be running back home once we killed even a small percentage of that number - each hunter/warrior we kill, causes a village to gain less food for their people".

Sure, it may have been cool for a time, but the rest of us in the gaming group had a harder time hitting that "I believe" button (ie, the suspension of disbelief button). It was my fault for brining it up - I'll readily admit, but for many of us, combat is something you do ONLY as a last resort, not the first, second, third, and last resort. For the record? Of that gaming crew, two of us know how to ride horses for real, three of us knew what was involved with either of foil or saber fencing (one was a state Olympics finalist in his early years spending time fencing). So, when we play, we play with the actual intent to role play what it is that is happening. We can easily visualize things, remember our own real life experiences and then pay attention to those nitty gritty details.

Ever jump onto a concrete step that was three feet up in a single bound, slip, and land with your full weight on the edge of the concrete with your leg? The pain is excruciating to say the least. Being unable to sleep due to the pain is bad enough, but having that level of pain stay with you for over two weeks is not something one wants to endure for any length of time. Then again? GURPS doesn't simulate how often you need to visit the outhouse either - so there is that (who wants to simulate EVERYTHING realistically?)

So - when asked "Why does something matter" and that something is any given topic relating to GURPS, the answer is almost always going to be "because someone desires either the streamlining of detail, or an enhanced amount of detail or something between".

;)

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by hal

If there are a lot of "Experts" about with skill level 18, so be it. GURPS originally started with the premise that skill 18 represents something of an expert. It sort of causes problems if everyone is an expert and few are neophytes no?

Player characters != everyone. Players also probably aren't trying to fight everyone, only some people.

[GodBeastX]

I'm late to the thread, so probably all my answers are already said but, if we include Martial Arts book:

Counter Attack Technique - Absolutely great technique to buy up and give someone -2 defense after you defend against them.

Dual Weapon Attack - ANother -1 if you're dual wielding.

Combine those, and add in deceptive, feints, run around attacks, etc to taste. Usually nothing has defenses after that.

[hal]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Player characters != everyone. Players also probably aren't trying to fight everyone, only some people.

Agreed to a degree. However, who do the player characters go up against in game play? Not each other (or if they do, that's a inter-party issue). They generally go up against GM constructs known as player characters. And, the more expert the player characters are, the more likely their opponents will consistently be experts in and of themselves.

[Kalzazz]

Most of the time I make badguys not as skilled as the PCs because the PCs ideally have superior Kung Fu

However it is incredibly dependent on what the game is

Many source materials and games treat the loss of even 1 PC (or even non trivial damage like removed limbs) as a Bad Thing

Other things if a party of N PCs wins a fight with N-1 of them dead jolly good

[(E)]

If the situation merits it I use the battle skill system from 3rd ed mass combat to hurry what looks to be a long boring fight against many weaker opponents. A few tweaks on the survival and glory tables and it is a fast way to handle a drudge worthy stack of dice rolls.

[Maz]

Hmm, speaking of speeding up melee combat. Does someone have some cross-reference sheet or something where you can cook a lot of rolls down to one or two?


I mean. In the game I am currently GM'ing I have more then once run into a problem with one PC going into a duel with someone. And often they don't pick fights with unskilled people but rather people who are often relatively equal in skill level. And those are high but not extremely high... soo the fights can drag out. And then I have 3 other players just watching.
Of course there are many other way to get around this problem but I can't always do those. Sometimes it comes down to the fight. and it would be nice to have a quicker way to end them... while still taking into account their skill AND equipment such as DR and damage output.

Maybe a RoF-inspired system like someone else suggested up-thread.
Could be someone like an each get a roll with a penalty based on the others best active defense and get a nubme rof hits based on...something.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by hal

If there are a lot of "Experts" about with skill level 18, so be it. GURPS originally started with the premise that skill 18 represents something of an expert. It sort of causes problems if everyone is an expert and few are neophytes no?

...Okay, but is that what you meant by "issues with time spent in a combat simulation between two characters with skill 18"?