Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Traveller

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-21-2018, 10:39 AM   #21
SteveS
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: near Seattle WA USA
Default Re: waste heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
. . .
And that's relevant here because, if you came up with a novel physical phenomenon that allowed heat to disappear without being conducted, convected, or radiated, it could equally well lead to a more generalized conservation law; the process might no more violate the laws of thermodynamics than the emissions of radium violated those laws.
Obviously we need either really enormous radiators, which are about as functional for Traveller as an interstellar setting without faster-than-light travel, or another means of disposing of heat.

But I don't think radiative heat disposal is entirely out of reach as a hand-wave. Yes, a power plant that generates lots of useful energy without radiators that are much cooler than the fusion chamber temperature are impossible by known thermodynamics; you have a choice between huge, low-temperature radiators and lots of useful power or small, really hot radiators but not much useful power.

But with a super-science hand-wave, why not a small, hot radiator for a power plant that still generates plenty of useful power? Or internal systems that use lots of power without generating lots of waste heat? Or a combination, where almost all weapon energy goes out the weapon, but other systems behave more realistically? All violate known thermodynamics, of course.

But reactionless drives violate known conservation of momentum, by definition.

Given that gravitic super-science already violates conservation of momentum, it seems like a reasonable hand-wave to say that gravitics can also violate thermodynamics in a way that works as a compact radiator. Dump the waste heat through the maneuver drives, and you have an excuse for the glowing circles in a lot of science fiction illustrations.
SteveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 11:03 AM   #22
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: waste heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveS View Post
But with a super-science hand-wave, why not a small, hot radiator for a power plant that still generates plenty of useful power?
The efficiency of a power plant is limited by the ratio of temperatures of the heat source and the heat sink. This is not inherently that much of a problem for fusion since it involves temperatures of hundreds of millions of degrees, but if you're using a regular thermal setup you're limited by the range of temperatures your working material can handle, so high temperature radiators involve super scary working fluids.

We can get around this by assuming most energy capture from power plants is done by non-thermal means (this requires neutronless fusion), but there's a separate problem: internal waste heat (other than what's required for power generation). There, if you want a radiator that's hotter than the component you're cooling, you need a heat pump (which requires energy), potentially causing the power consumption of things like energy weapons to balloon.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 12:21 PM   #23
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: waste heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Tpotentially causing the power consumption of things like energy weapons to balloon.
The problem with energy weapons in GT is that the power cells that feed them directly store only enough energy for 1 shot at a time thus requiring a large power plant to rwcharge them quickly.I think it's 1 shot per minute in GT.

Store enough power for 60 shots but recharge on the basis of a day rather than a minute and your power plant slice devoted to energy weapons shrinks by a factor of 24.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 12:31 PM   #24
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: waste heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
The problem with energy weapons in GT is that the power cells that feed them directly store only enough energy for 1 shot at a time thus requiring a large power plant to rwcharge them quickly. I think it's 1 shot per minute in GT.

Store enough power for 60 shots but recharge on the basis of a day rather than a minute and your power plant slice devoted to energy weapons shrinks by a factor of 24.
GT was largely attempting to replicate Traveller feel, not build things that actually make sense in GURPS Vehicles.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 04:23 PM   #25
Kax
 
Kax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: God's Own Country
Default Re: waste heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
GT was largely attempting to replicate Traveller feel, not build things that actually make sense in GURPS Vehicles.

Yeah, one of the first things I built when playing with more starship build modules was a 'Stored Power' chunk that was basically a big-arse battery and associated power control and fire suppression systems.

I had to put limitations on it for weapon use or it allowed even the heaviest non-spinal-mount energy weapon to act as a machine gun for a space round or two. This came across as a bit broken.
__________________
Paul May | MIB 1138 (on hiatus)
Kax is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.