Talents and Defaulting, do I get the Bonus Twice?

[scc]

OK, this is purely theoretical at this stage, but it came up while I was considering something for a possible Lands Out of Time campaign where there will be the option for a character to be the first mage.

The character has a Talent, this includes skills A and B, B defaults to A, the character has at least a single point in A and wants to use B. For example, the Magically Gifted Talent gives both Religious Ritual and Ritual Magic, the character has it at level two granting him a +2 to both skills, he is IQ 13, and has Religious Ritual at IQ+0 [4] -13 for a total of 15 with the Talent and wants to use Ritual Magic, which defaults to Religious Ritual at -6, does he subtract 6 from 15 and then add 2 for a total of 11, subtract 6 from 15 and then not add anything for a total of 9 or subtract 6 from 13 and then add 2 for a total 9?

[Mathulhu]

I don't think so, that would be double dipping. Effectively you are applying the same bonus twice, if talents off set defaults like that I would expect it to be spelt out explicitly.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by scc

OK, this is purely theoretical at this stage, but it came up while I was considering something for a possible Lands Out of Time campaign where there will be the option for a character to be the first mage.

The character has a Talent, this includes skills A and B, B defaults to A, the character has at least a single point in A and wants to use B. For example, the Magically Gifted Talent gives both Religious Ritual and Ritual Magic, the character has it at level two granting him a +2 to both skills, he is IQ 13, and has Religious Ritual at IQ+0 [4] -13 for a total of 15 with the Talent and wants to use Ritual Magic, which defaults to Religious Ritual at -6, does he subtract 6 from 15 and then add 2 for a total of 11, subtract 6 from 15 and then not add anything for a total of 9 or subtract 6 from 13 and then add 2 for a total 9?

No.

No double dipping, calculate the default without the Talent, and then add the Talent.

Additionally if a Talent applies to Skill A but not Skill B, and B defaults to A, then the Talent Bonus does not apply to B even indirectly from A.

e.g. B defaults to A-4
Skill A-14 +1 for Talent = 15 Total
Skill B = A-4 = 14-4 = 10.
(NOT 15-4=11 which would be effectively applying the Talent to B via the default!)

[SCAR]

GURPS Power-Ups 3: Talents spells this out explicitly on page 4.

Defaults and Talents
When skills that enjoy Talent bonuses are used in default calculations,
always do the math and determine the point costs without the Talent level,
and then add the Talent bonus at the end. The Talent only adds to the skills
listed for it – never to skills that default to those skills, unless they’re noted
under the Talent as well (in which case, adding Talent as the final step
ensures that it isn’t counted twice).