05-25-2018, 03:13 AM | #21 | |
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: A crappy state called Illinois
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Re: 4th Edition Vehicles
Quote:
While I haven't see it with my own eyes, from what I've heard it's going to be pretty sweet.
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GURB: Ultra-Tech Reloaded Normies: Man! The government is filled with liars and thieves! Me: Well yeah, here's what they're lying about, what they're stealing from you, and who's doing it. Normies: Rolls eyes Shut up conspiracy theorist Me: >.> |
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05-25-2018, 03:24 AM | #22 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: In the UFO
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Re: 4th Edition Vehicles
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Complexity level is about the same, but there are a few more dials and switches, optional rules, etc. to cover various issues (like big ships dying too easily, or different interpretations of beam weapon lethality, or how superscience affects stuff). You can build robots and so on fairly well - I did try designing a "human being" android w hose power to weight ratios, sizes, areas, weight of internal frame, etc. matched a human to make sure the resulting performances also work. Most of my testing suggested that historical vehicle designs come out pretty well with a lot less fudging then before. You don't get problems like 16-inch naval guns weighing only 30,000 lbs. instead of 270,000 lbs., for instance. Some of the fringe cases like hovercraft and sea planes work better. There's still some finickiness due to the nature of the underlying design assumptions and some core abstractions common to both versions. And, of course, it's possible that things may change during the editorial or publication process.
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Is love like the bittersweet taste of marmalade on burnt toast? Last edited by David L Pulver; 05-25-2018 at 03:29 AM. |
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05-25-2018, 03:43 AM | #23 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
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Re: 4th Edition Vehicles
The biggest problem I had with 3e's Vehicles was estimating Empty Space - for instance, for modeling longer legs or a van's cargo bay. Are there useful estimates given for such things, or is empty space less of a thing this time around?
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"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991 "But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!" The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation. Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting |
05-25-2018, 03:43 AM | #24 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: In the UFO
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Re: 4th Edition Vehicles
Quote:
The idea, however, was that Vehicle Design would appeal to the hardcore gear head who had been ignored through much of the 4e line. At the same time, the books are definitely NOT intended to replace simpler options such as Spaceships, just to provide an extra detail alternative. Please note, however, that at the moment while SJ Games have the Vehicle Design manuscript they haven't really had time to digest it yet. It is premature to speculate on when and in what form the actual book may appear.
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Is love like the bittersweet taste of marmalade on burnt toast? |
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05-25-2018, 04:07 AM | #25 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: In the UFO
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Re: 4th Edition Vehicles
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The cargo rules also have certain changes and most of the volumes of power train components were increased to make the volume that was previously added at the last minute from "access space" now a standard. Overall, I'd say it remains an issue, but it's a bit less of an issue. "Add components, then wrap a hull around it" continues to remain the default (you go mad when building things like airplanes or anything with lots of sub-assemblies without using it), the "build the hull first, then add components afterward" option is covered right at the start of the book, and should you opt to use this, it lets you avoid some of the empty space decisions, albeit at the price of sometimes running out of space...
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Is love like the bittersweet taste of marmalade on burnt toast? |
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05-25-2018, 04:29 AM | #26 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: 4th Edition Vehicles
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The worst problem I encountered in using Vehicles was that in designing seagoing ships, I could figure out length, beam, and draft, but there didn't seem to be a natural way to get freeboard. I ended up splitting the main hull into the part below the waterline and the part above it, and making the part above it a big superstructure, but I was never sure that was giving me plausible answers.
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
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05-25-2018, 04:47 AM | #27 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
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Re: 4th Edition Vehicles
Sounds very promising! I'll finally be able to make my 45-ton strike starfighter, 75-ton combat mech, and 500 ton civil defense/counter-insurgency frigate. I'll definitely be using the "hull first, components after" approach for a lot. Thanks for including that.
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"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991 "But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!" The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation. Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting |
05-25-2018, 05:44 AM | #28 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: 4th Edition Vehicles
Quote:
Your best best would probably be to make some guesses as to the hull form based on lines/streamlining. In real life the complexity of this sort of thing was why pre-19th century ship-builders were generally very conservative about changes to their hull forms, and why 20th century navies spent a lot of money on tank testing and on skilled designers before they even thought about laying a keel. Even so, from time to time people get it wrong.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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05-25-2018, 07:57 AM | #29 | |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: 4th Edition Vehicles
Quote:
I'd really appreciate the GURPS community's complicity in not spreading rumors like "The final draft is in, so we should see the book any month now!" For a manuscript of this length and complexity, just having the final draft barely brings us to the halfway mark even when we can drop it directly into editing . . . which we cannot in this case. I know that's disappointing, but I'd rather a little short, sharp, but honest disappointment up front than a lot of broken promises that drag out into months or years of disappointment.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
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05-25-2018, 08:06 AM | #30 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
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Re: 4th Edition Vehicles
No problem, Kromm! I had a cautiously optimistic estimate in my head of a year before it headed to layout anyway, and that was assuming it didn't get sent back for a major re-write. Realistic head-estimate right now is end of 2021.
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"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991 "But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!" The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation. Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting Last edited by Phantasm; 05-25-2018 at 08:10 AM. |
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