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Old 04-18-2015, 05:15 AM   #31
Totem
 
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Default Re: Star Wars: Light of the Cauldron

Sorry that some of these have taken a while to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talosian View Post
Miraluka

Advantages:
360° Vision (Panoptic 2, +60%; Force, -10%) [38]
Dark Vision (Force, -10%) [23]
Detect (Force Users) (Vague, -50%; Affects Insubstantial, +20%; Force, -10%) [6]
Empathy (No Skill Bonuses or No Lie Detection, -70%; Force, -10%) [3]
Force Sensitivity 0 [5]
Injury Tolerance (No Eyes) [5]
Penetrating Vision 1 (Force, -10%) [9]
See Invisible (Force) (Force, -10%) [14]

Disadvantages:
Blindness (Mitigator (Force), -80%) [-10]
Colorblindness [-10]
Selfless (12) [-5]
Looking over the old SW RPG rules for species, I find that the Miraluka had the following template (be aware this is D&D style stats): -2 DEX, +2 INT, +2 Initiative, Force Sight.

You've got Force Sight sorted as a variant of Scanning Sense or whatever we agreed on. Initiative would be covered by a cut down Combat Reflexes, and the primary stats... DX-1 and IQ+1, unless you want to take it to -2/+2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talosian View Post
Yoda's species would indeed be a pain, because it's incredibly vague and secretive : / Extra arms, on the other hand... I'ma look around for a bit on Wookieepedia, and see what I can find.

EDIT: Multiple arms time! The ones that I found (I chucked a few that were effectively unplayable, but didn't look at any of them very thoroughly): Besalisks, Myneyrshi, Pho Ph'eahians, Codru-Ji, Morseerians, and the Xexto.

Just... please, whatever you do, don't go the route of giving one of these four lightsabers, Ambidexterity, and "Dual"-Weapon Attack. The sheer amount of destruction would end the world. (And make my planned mere dual-wielder feel rather inadequate XD)
I haven't had a chance to look over these, and if you are going for one I don't recognise (which is all of the ones that you've listed) then I'm not going to complain about the racial template being wrong. There are enough species in Star Wars that use the Human racial template without being Human that you can fairly easily provide a not-entirely-accurate racial template and give a plausible argument for it being a sub-species or something like that.

What I will put in right now though (this is following on from the discussion of broken armed attacked) is that I am declaring that you have an additional Triple Wield and Quad Wield technique, each following the same rules as Dual Wield and having the previous technique as a prerequisite and maximum limit (so you can't know Quad Wield at a higher level than Triple Wield, etc). I'm hoping that this provides some kind of balance; certainly, I'm working on the basis that you are at -4 per additional weapon (and that's before off-hand rules come into play...).

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
A few notes on the jedi knight template. If you take it only you can not use the force, So I think force sensitivity 0 [5] needs to be added to that template.
This is true. I was leaving it out because... I think I just assumed that people would add it in. Also, the first character idea that got posted features Force Sensitivity as part of the racial template. Consider it added though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
like wise the force skills needed. thats another 16pts (assuming you are only putting 1 point in each skill first) added to the template making it cost a bare minimum of 64 points to play a jedi. that leaves you with 86 points to create a character with (+50 from disadvantages).
The Force skills aren't in the template because I'm not requiring people to take all of them. There are Jedi who never get the hang of Create, and others who focus very heavily on Move. You've then got bloodlines like the Halcyon lineage who cannot put points into Move at all. What I will do here is add in a requirement for a minimum number of points to be spent in each of Nouns and Verbs.

I've had a couple of comments about the points limit, and I'm starting to agree with it. I'm thus increasing the points limit to 200+50; be aware that the difficulty of some NPCs will be increased accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
I also think that the nouns "force" and "self" could be dropped, force can be put in with energy and self can go to animal. the verb "communicate can be combined with sense.
I'm going to stick with the skills that I've got here; I agree that some of them do overlap in places, and I have considered several options for this. My logic is thus:
  • Force - This is the Force itself; anything like Farseeing, probability affecting, getting a general sense of the moral alignment within the Force of a person, place or artefact, etc wouldn't be covered by Energy, and though they could be divided out into other skills, I'm holding them as a separate item under the general heading of the more spiritual or mystical aspects of the Force.
  • Self - My thought here is that there is a significant difference between being able to affect someone or something else, and being able to affect yourself. The ability to internalise something like Sense/Animal into Sense/Self is not a given thing.
  • Communicate/ Sense - These are two distinct skills; when Luke is hanging under Cloud City and calls Leia back this is Communicate as opposed to Control or Sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
Also what are the difficulties for the skills lightsaber, expert skill (lightsaber)?
I thought that I had added these in. Just checked:
Quote:
Melee Weapon (Lightsabre) is a DX/A skill which defaults to other sword skills at -5.
Expert Skill (Lightsabre) is going to be IQ/A; it should technically be IQ/H because of the weight of content, but there are so few options for learning it, and it covers a single class of specialist weapon, so I'm reducing it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
here is a slightly modded version coming in at 60pts
See my comments above.
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:10 AM   #32
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Default Re: Star Wars: Light of the Cauldron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totem View Post
*snip*
What I will put in right now though (this is following on from the discussion of broken armed attacked) is that I am declaring that you have an additional Triple Wield and Quad Wield technique, each following the same rules as Dual Wield and having the previous technique as a prerequisite and maximum limit (so you can't know Quad Wield at a higher level than Triple Wield, etc). I'm hoping that this provides some kind of balance; certainly, I'm working on the basis that you are at -4 per additional weapon (and that's before off-hand rules come into play...).
*snip*
One thing to point out about this plan: Dual Wield Skill +0 is [5]; if you price Tripe Wield and Quad Wield the same, this totals to [15] to offset -4 to hit penalty. +4 to skill costs, at most, [16]. I know which one I would choose.
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:44 AM   #33
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Default Re: Star Wars: Light of the Cauldron

Quote:
Originally Posted by GnomesofZurich View Post
One thing to point out about this plan: Dual Wield Skill +0 is [5]; if you price Tripe Wield and Quad Wield the same, this totals to [15] to offset -4 to hit penalty. +4 to skill costs, at most, [16]. I know which one I would choose.
He's adding mounting penalties, to triple would be [9] and Quad [13] and they would need to be combined, so that's [27] actually.

Just really obviously not worth doing.
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:56 AM   #34
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Default Re: Star Wars: Light of the Cauldron

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker View Post
Note that there was no discussion, as I felt there was no point in responding to the rude nonsense of Talosian sticking his nose into something that had nothing to do with his character concept, and involved what I felt was a largely incomplete and specious examination. One that he should take up with Kromm since he is disagreeing with kromm's specific ruling.
Okay, I confess that I messed up here; people posting quotes from other people's posts without using the quoting mechanics properly so that they could be tracked had me confused, and I lost track of who was doing/ saying what. I am grateful that this issue with costs/ attacks got pointed out, because the first time I noticed anything to do with it otherwise would probably have been when several vital NPCs were wiped out in a single round. It's happened to me before where rules like this have turned up. Certainly, regardless of all else, I would have (I hope) raised issue with 2+ attacks and looked up the fact that the rules in Basic Set only specify two weapon attacks; there would have been extra penalties applied for the third and fourth weapons, regardless of what anyone had said or done, simply as a matter of extension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker View Post
Usually character creation is at least half the fun of GURPS for me, but fiddly house rules and anemic point values suck that right out...
Fiddly house rules in this case comes from making use of a variant of a standard system (for the Force) and the fact that the standard rules don't cover some situations. I've tried to keep them to a minimum, but I can't see how a load of them could be avoided; even using Powers as a basis and going for purely Advantage based Force powers rather than Magery based, you still need to clarify what is and isn't possible.

The points limit, I will admit, was a mistake; I was aiming for a realistic points limit in a game based around a cinematic world. I have just increased the points limit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker View Post
I want to play games for fun, and not for frustration, so I'm going to skip this one.
I agree. I want to play this for fun, and it looks like being a good story. I freely admit that I got impatient and launched it off a bit sooner than I should have done; half of the stuff that has come up though, is stuff that I never thought of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker View Post
He's adding mounting penalties, to triple would be [9] and Quad [13] and they would need to be combined, so that's [27] actually.

Just really obviously not worth doing.
No, each technique would be priced at base cost and would apply to all attacks, so the cumulative total would only come to 15 points. It would work out that you only needed that many points anyway.




Can I please have a role-call of players who are interested in playing, with their concepts/ character sheets as they stand, in this thread. Between digressions on the nature of the moral structure being used, having to modify the templates and house rules, and realising that I'm a bit shorter on time than I hoped, I'm starting to get frustrated with this as well. I would like to know who will be playing and have an idea of their intended role so that I can get it clear in my own mind who is doing what.
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Last edited by Totem; 04-18-2015 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:33 AM   #35
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Default Re: Star Wars: Light of the Cauldron

Im still in. He has a knack of trading and negotiating due to his race being natural barters. He excelled in lightsaber combat due to his hard work. He gets along with a lot of people and is not afraid to walk up to the meanest looking person and say "HI! want to trade?" with a smile. During training he sometimes fails because he refuses to leave anyone behind, once you are in his team you are like family, and he doesn't give up on family. He has a long way to go with force training, though. He learned the basics for most applications and thanks to his innate force sensitivity and knowledge he is capable of most things, but he is still considered a novice.


Name: zerobadeeveeshimet
Race: Squib
SM: -1

Attributes (100)
ST 9 [0]
DX 12 [20]
IQ 13 [60]
HT 11 [10]

HP 9 [0]
Will 12 [0]
Per 13 [0]
FP 12 [0]

Basic Speed 6 [5]
Basic Move 7 [5]

Basic Lift 16
Damage 1d-2/1d-1


Social Background
TL: 11 [0]

Cultural Familiarities:

Languages:
Galactic basic (Native) [0]
Hurt (Native) [0]
Squibbian (Native) [0]


Advantages (82)
Race: Squib [3]
Jedi Knight [64]
Ambidexterity [5]
Force Sensitivity 1 [10]


Perks (0)


Disadvantages (-30)
Chummy [-5]
Impulsiveness (15 or less) [-5]
Pacifism (Reluctant Killer) [-5]
Sense of Duty (Adventuring companions) [-5]
Xenophilia (12 or less) [-10]

Quirks (-3)
Attentive [-1]
Broad-Minded [-1]
Imaginative [-1]



Skills (51)

** = +1 from talents
* = owned by jedi knight template

Primary:
Administration (A) IQ+0 [1]**
Accounting (H) IQ+0 [2]**
Diplomacy IQ/H - IQ+0 [4]
Fast-Talk IQ/A - IQ-1 [1]
Finance (H) IQ+0 [2]**
Market Analysis (H) IQ-1 [1]**
Merchant (A) IQ+1 [4]**
Lightsabre DX/A DX+4 [16(1*)]
Expert Skill (Lightsabre) IQ/A* IQ+0 [2(1*)]
Law (Republic) IQ/H IQ-2 [1*]
Philosophy (Jedi) IQ/H IQ-2 [1*]
Meditation Will/H Will-2 [1*]

Secondary:
Acrobatics DX/H - DX-2 [1]
Brawling DX/E - DX+0 [1]
Detect Lies Per/H - Per-2 [1]
Knife DX/E - DX+0 [1]
Tracking Per/A - Per-1 [1]
Wrestling DX/A - DX+0 [2]

Background:
Acting IQ/A - IQ-1 [1]
Climbing DX/A - DX-1 [1]
Computer Operation/TL11 IQ/E - IQ+0 [1]
Escape DX/H - DX-2 [1]
First Aid/TL11 (Squib) IQ/E - IQ+0 [1]
Gesture IQ/E - IQ+0 [1]
Holdout IQ/A - IQ-1 [1]
Knot-Tying DX/E - DX+0 [1]
Hiking HT/A - HT-1 [1]
Observation Per/A - Per-1 [1]
Scrounging Per/E - Per+0 [1]
Search Per/A - Per-1 [1]
Throwing DX/A - DX-1 [1]

Force skills:
Verb:
Communicate IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Control IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Create IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Heal IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Move IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Protect IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Sense IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Strengthen IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Weaken IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**

Noun:
Animal IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Energy IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Force IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Inanimate IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Mind IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Plant IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**
Self IQ/VH IQ-2 [1*]**



Racial template Squib: (3)
DX +1 [20*]
Acute hearing +4 [8*]
Business Acumen 1 (talent) [10*]
Fearlessness +2 [4*]
Reputation +2 (Honest traders, Merchants, x½, All the time, x1) [5*]
Temperature Tolerance 2 (cold) [2*]
Fur [1*]
Curious (6 or less) [-10*]
Overconfidence (6 or less) [-10*]
Reputation (eager and obnoxious, corporations and governments) (-2) (All the time;
Large class) [-5*]
Vow (Never tell secret data) (minor) [-5*]
Dislikes liars [-1*]
Likes strange gadgets [-1*]
Size Modifier -1 [0*]
ST -1 [-10*]
Will -1 [-5*]

Jedi Knight Template: (64)*
Duty (The Force, The Order, The Republic, includes the Jedi Code) [-20]
Force Sensitivity 0 [5]
Legal Powers (Jedi; International, covert investigations, relative impunity) [15]
Legal Immunity (strict code of conduct) [5]
Patron (Jedi Order; Extremely Powerful Organisation 25, Sometimes x1) [25]
Rank (Jedi Knight) [10]
Moral Guidance (+3 on meditation rolls to remove DSP) [3]
One point in each of the following skills: Lightsabre DX/A, Expert Skill (Lightsabre) IQ/A*, Law (Republic), Philosophy (Jedi), Meditation [5]
Eight points to be spent on Verb Force skills [8]
Eight points to be spent on Noun Force skills [8]


Stats [100] Ads [82] Disads [-30] Quirks [-3] Skills [51] = Total [200]
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Old 04-18-2015, 02:11 PM   #36
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Default Re: Star Wars: Light of the Cauldron

I am still potentially interested, but have become exceedingly busy with schoolwork over the last week, and it isn't likely to clear up in the immediate future. In all likelihood I will not have the time to write up a character, and potentially not enough time to participate reliably.

I'm posting a brief response to some of the accusations for the purpose of clarification, but they're in spoiler tags, so just ignore them if you don't care. If there are further issues, I would request that Matrix PM me directly.
Spoiler:  
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Old 04-25-2015, 08:22 PM   #37
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Default Re: Star Wars: Light of the Cauldron

is this still on???
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Old 04-26-2015, 03:06 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
is this still on???
Sorry, should have posted sooner. Out of various people saying that they were interested or commenting in general on the game, I've had one response with an actual concept, a possible player not having time, and a possible player losing patience with the game. At this point I'm going to shelve this idea. I'm looking at joining a game instead at present, and if that falls through...

The awkward part about starting any new game is going to be that most of them involve assorted house rules. Mind Force involves a specific psi template with rules on how the abilities work that aren't in RAW (because the concept comes from a story that I've been trying to write for about twelve years where that is how the abilities work), while Light of the Storm, which was the one that people showed the most interest in the last time I tried asking, involves a power system similar to the system I'm using here for the Force (but costing more, without the moral issues, but with sanity issues). At present The Slain is looking like the simplest to run, because it has the vampire racial template and a few rules about behaviour.

Anyway... At this time this game is being shut down. I'm happy to share my notes on it if someone wants to have a go at running it themselves, or adapting it to a different setting (I nearly offered it as TL3-4 fantasy).
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Old 05-01-2015, 05:44 PM   #39
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Default Re: Star Wars: Light of the Cauldron

Hmm. I was going to say I'd be interested in the thief/shipbuilder sidekick, possibly as a droid.

Honestly the reason I didn't speak up sooner was that I don't feel as familiar with the setting, beyond the original trilogy. I'd be totally OK if it wasn't the Star Wars 'verse.

But now I'm just putting this out there in case it ends up getting resurrected.
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