See Secrets spell

[BaHalus]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

So what's the range? How many feet of earth down can you detect those hidden corpses?

You would see the burial site, not the corpses and would not sense distances.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by BaHalus

You would see the burial site, not the corpses and would not sense distances.

I really don't like that idea. Of course one amusing result of it, is that if you went to the universe of Battle Planets, the ground would always glow for anyone using See Secrets, because there's something hidden at the core of each world.

[bcd]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I really don't like that idea. Of course one amusing result of it, is that if you went to the universe of Battle Planets, the ground would always glow for anyone using See Secrets, because there's something hidden at the core of each world.

I would only light up the original entry point of the burial. So if you craft a one-mile deep tunnel into a mountain in order to hide something in there, then you close up the tunnel again, the part of the mountain that used to be the entry point to your secret will be revealed. The rest of the mountain will not, even if there are other points along its exterior that are in fact closer to the actual hidden item buried within.

If an item was hidden by placing it in deep space and then building a planet around it, the whole planet might light up as you describe.

[Not another shrubbery]

Kromm's guidelines, from his first post in this thread, were pretty much how we played the spell all along. We figured that it was like being able to notice anything that a Vision roll would allow. We wrestled with the intent thing for a while, with some being in favor of just dropping that clause, while I preferred leaving it in (I'm usually for rulings that make things harder for the mage).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I really don't like that idea. Of course one amusing result of it, is that if you went to the universe of Battle Planets, the ground would always glow for anyone using See Secrets, because there's something hidden at the core of each world.

Then what always lihghts up is the earth under your feet since that's the direct path to the core.

When the item is directly under your feet 30 feet in front of you does not lead to the core in a straight line.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Kromm's guidelines, from his first post in this thread, were pretty much how we played the spell all along. We figured that it was like being able to notice anything that a Vision roll would allow. We wrestled with the intent thing for a while, with some being in favor of just dropping that clause, while I preferred leaving it in (I'm usually for rulings that make things harder for the mage).

Yeah same here, and I'm a little perplexed by all these puzzles with boxes, books, and battle planets. It seems to be there's a class of stuff, that like porn, I know it when I see it, that is "secret". Secret doors (you know that thing that's a "-S-" on your old school maps), hidden triggers, false bottoms, stuff like that and you have to actually see the thing for the spell to work. Treasure just placed in boxes doesn't count. A trigger under the rug doesn't count, unless you remove the rug. Seems obvious to me, honestly.

[Anthony]

There's two categories of problems. First of all, what specifically counts as a 'secret' for purposes of this spell. Secondly, what is the actual mechanical benefit to detection.

I choose to define a secret as a thing that someone intended to hide, defined by intent; thus, effects that block detecting intent block the spell. I'm not entirely clear what definition Dr. Kromm is using. At that point, the restriction on detection Dr. Kromm seems to intend is basically equivalent to painting the the secret thing some distinctive color (this isn't the same thing as in plain sight...) -- i.e. it basically negates any disguise or camouflage, but doesn't negate darkness or obscurement. If the secret also seems to glow somewhat, that would negate darkness. If the glow can be seen through thin barriers, that would negate obscurement.

Now, the effect of magical countermeasures, such as remove aura, is to prevent the spell from recognizing the secret as being a secret, and thus it doesn't change color or glow. Depending on how the spell marks secrets, mundane countermeasures might also work, but would be a penalty on the vision roll of the searcher, not on the spell skill.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I choose to define a secret as a thing that someone intended to hide, defined by intent; thus, effects that block detecting intent block the spell.

When is the appropriate time to block intent-detection, then? When the secret is hidden? When the spell is cast? When the user's gaze falls on the item?

[BaHalus]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yeah same here, and I'm a little perplexed by all these puzzles with boxes, books, and battle planets. It seems to be there's a class of stuff, that like porn, I know it when I see it, that is "secret". Secret doors (you know that thing that's a "-S-" on your old school maps), hidden triggers, false bottoms, stuff like that and you have to actually see the thing for the spell to work. Treasure just placed in boxes doesn't count. A trigger under the rug doesn't count, unless you remove the rug. Seems obvious to me, honestly.

So, A trigger under a rug that will be activated by removing the rug will never be detected?

I don't know,but, for me, the cover is part part of the secret and should be "highlighted".

If the cover were put without intent to hide, ok, you need to remove the cover to see the secret. But, if the cover had the intent of hiding something, then you see that it covers something, just not exactly what (a trigger, of door, a key, a hole?).

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by BaHalus

So, A trigger under a rug that will be activated by removing the rug will never be detected?

I don't know,but, for me, the cover is part part of the secret and should be "highlighted".

If the cover were put without intent to hide, ok, you need to remove the cover to see the secret. But, if the cover had the intent of hiding something, then you see that it covers something, just not exactly what (a trigger, of door, a key, a hole?).

The problem with this idea (that a cover is part of the secret) is then you have this nebulous category called "a covering". When does it stop being "a covering" and start being "architecture" or "stuff in my room"?

I mean, if I close a door, it hides things behind it. I put up walls, they hide things behind them. Hell, interior doors and walls beyond structural necessity and airflow control are explicitly for privacy - and privacy is another word for secrecy. Yes, that's at the extreme end, but you have to work back from the extremes, and there's this huge grey gulf in the middle that I just don't like.

That, and putting a rug over a plain old trap door seems like a really terrible "secret" if you ask me. That's not a secret door, that's a concealed door (you know, the ones that were marked with a -C- on the old maps :D) and I think the distinction is just as good now as it was then.