[DF] Basic Question About RAW DF Template Use

[Stripe]

I have a few questions about Dungeon Fantasy and the rules-as-written use of templates from DF 1 and DF 3. I've never used DF or even character templates before, though I've read the rules for their use on p. B258.

I'm very sleepy right now trying to pound out a pre-gen knight for a player by hand (I don't have any character-making programs) and some of my confusion may be the result of my lethargic state.

On page 15 of DF 1, it says that the suggested disadvantage limit is -50 plus -5 points in quirks. That's what I'm using.

On page 4 of DF 3 it says every character template in DF 1 reserves some points for advantages -- the Knight has 60 points.

Where are these 60 points? The listed template cost is 250, the suggested campaign amount and the amount I'm using.

I made a Knight using the template and it came to 300 points before disadvantages; 265 afterward.

Using the Knight template, the player must select -35 points in disadvantages, leaving -15 before hitting the -50-point disadvantage limit, right? That will also bring the cost of the Knight I'm making down to 250, the amount the template says it costs...

Where are these 60 points mentioned in DF 3?

Or, RAW, do you get -50 points above and beyond the -35 the template allows? Still, that wouldn't give the Knight 60 points; it would give more. Since B258 says, "If the template has fewer disadvantages than the campaign permits, you may take more, up to the limit," I don't think that's the case.

I want to make the Knight a half-ogre for 20 points, but I can't figure out how to get those points like DF 3 says I should be able to do, RAW...

If this is a mess, I apologize. My brain is really grinding to a halt.

Thanks for clearing things up!

[zoncxs]

when picking the knights advantages it says:

"Advantages: Born War Leader 2 [10]; Combat Reflexes [15];
and High Pain Threshold [10]. • Another 60 points chosen
from among..."

instead of picking another 60pts worth of things that are optional you can take a racial template or something else.

[Stripe]

Found it (DF 3, p. 4):

Assume that a racial template counts as an appropriate
“advantage” for any character template that can afford
it; e.g., a thief could choose from standard thief advantages or
any race that costs up to 30 points.

[munin]

Originally Posted by Stripe

... I made a Knight using the template and it came to 300 points before disadvantages; 265 afterward.

Using the Knight template, the player must select -35 points in disadvantages, leaving -15 before hitting the -50-point disadvantage limit, right? ...

In addition to the -35 points in the Disadvantages section, there's -15 on Basic Speed, so the template already contains the full -50 points of disadvantages -- don't add any more unless you really want to.

[Stripe]

^Yeah, I hadn't noticed that until late. I just finished the Knight a couple minutes ago. I struck it out, which I guess can be done since it's included in the advantages, and added Berserk for its combat "benefits."

[Kromm]

When the DF series talks about "disadvantage points" or "points in disadvantages" on templates, it's summing up all negative-cost items on the template. That's the canonical meaning of "disadvantage points" in GURPS, in fact.

When the DF series talks about "points reserved for advantages" or anything similar on templates, it's referring to allowances for discretionary advantage purchases, always found after "Advantages:" and typically worded "A further N points chosen from among <a big list of stuff>." The big list of stuff can include attribute and secondary characteristic levels, languages, and just about anything else with a positive cost that isn't a skill.

These definitions are distinct from "all points in things in the Advantages chapter of the Basic Set" and "all points in things in the Disadvantages chapter of the Basic Set" . . . but they are fairly clearly defined in DF.

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by Kromm

These definitions are distinct from "all points in things in the Advantages chapter of the Basic Set" and "all points in things in the Disadvantages chapter of the Basic Set" . . . but they are fairly clearly defined in DF.

They are. I agree. I was too sleepy to see straight and this was for my first ever venture into using DF templates.

I've learned a lot in the last 24 hours!