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Old 12-25-2008, 03:02 PM   #31
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6
I am not a native Spanish speaker...though I do have a bit of Spanish facility. Not much though.

All I wanted to say was that the work that you native speakers are doing to fix errors in Spanish Lite is inspiring and awesome!
Currently, Kuroshima is making all the work! ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroshima
What's really UNinspiring is the amount of errors that I'm finding. I knew it was bad when I started, but this is getting ridiculous. I hope that the other translations are better than this one...
I would bet they are good enough. Much better than this.

All in all, I think after all this error checking you are doing, it would be suitable to do an overall revision of the whole text (including boxes and tables) for better cohesion.

Definitely, a "right" translation of GURPS Lite to Spanish will ease the approaching of GURPS 4 ed to Spanish-speaking players. So, I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:11 PM   #32
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almafeta
That would be Interlingua. I translated GURPS Lite to Interlingua... Ironically, I was flamed elsewhere on the net for not knowing Interlingua because twice in GURPS Lite[IA], I used the Spanish 'mas' by mistake instead of proper Interlingua 'plus'.

(...)

I was going to volunteer to translate GURPS Lite[ES] but was afraid of putting too much on my plate again. (...)
I missed that incident. You know: in this world, few things are easier than destructive criticism.
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:30 PM   #33
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroshima
A new batch of corrections!
  • [snip]
  • p25, under "Armas de Fuego", "Rifle and Shotgun Table" -> "Tabla de Rifles y Escopetas" [Leftover word]
  • p25, in the ranged weapon table, "Rifle Francotirador" -> "Rifle de Francotirador" [Missing word]
Hola, Kuroshima and All.

I am also very worried that SJG would let such a botched job slip by, and I am also sure they will soon upload a corrected version.

Regarding your fantastic work at proofreading the text, please allow me to make a couple of comments:

I'd substitute fusil for rifle. It's the proper word in Spanish (we usually follow the French in military terminology). Likewise, we do not use the term francotirador (sniper) as a designator for sniper rifles. We call these weapons something like "accuracy rifles".

So the two pieces of errata above would read as follows:
  • p25, under "Armas de Fuego", "Rifle and Shotgun Table" -> "Tabla de Fusiles y Escopetas" [Leftover word & style]
  • p25, in the ranged weapon table, "Rifle Francotirador" -> "Fusil de Precisión" [Missing word & style]
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Last edited by gkzhukov; 12-25-2008 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Deleted a redundant comma.
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:33 PM   #34
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroshima
  • p22, in the actual armor table, "Chaleco Tacticalo" -> "Traje Tactico" (Not so sure about this one, I don't have enough knowledge on military equipment to give a better translation) [Mistranslation]
Chaleco táctico is a correct designation in Spanish, but I would like to see what is the source in English to be sure.
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

...And regarding the thrust/swing translation, I would go for:
  • Thrust: Estocada
  • Swing: Tajo

Merry Xmas!
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:59 PM   #36
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkzhukov
Chaleco táctico is a correct designation in Spanish, but I would like to see what is the source in English to be sure.
You can download the original GURPS Lite for free here.

In the original English text it is "Tactical Vest" (pages 18 and 29).

In the currently flawed "GURPS Lite Spanish", "Chaleco Táctico" appears in page 22. It says "Chaleco Tacticalo" in page 34.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkzhukov
...And regarding the thrust/swing translation, I would go for:
  • Thrust: Estocada
  • Swing: Tajo
"Tajo". Maybe... Your input here and regarding military terminology is interesting.
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Old 12-26-2008, 07:58 AM   #37
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

  • p32, under "Ataques Cuerpo a Cuerpo", "cualquier arma de cuerpo a cuerpo dispuesta" -> "cualquier arma de cuerpo a cuerpo preparada" [Style]
  • p32, under "Ataques Cuerpo a Cuerpo", "Un arma a dos manos esta dispuesta si" -> "Un arma a dos manos esta preparada si" [Style]
  • p32, under "Ataques Cuerpo a Cuerpo", "desequilibradas (p. ej., bardiche) quedan indispuestas tras cada ataque" -> "desequilibradas (p. ej., bardiche) deben ser preparadas de nuevo tras cada ataque" [Style]
  • p32, under "Ataques Cuerpo a Cuerpo", "o para disponer un arma desequilibrada que ha quedado indispuesta tras un ataque, debes usar una maniobra de Disponer (p. 31)." -> "o, para preparar un arma desequilibrada que ha quedado fuera de posicion tras un ataque, usar una maniobra de Preparar (p. 31)." [Sentence/Style]
  • p32, under "Ataques Cuerpo a Cuerpo", "Un arma natural (puñetazo, patada, etc.) esta siempre dispuesta a" -> "Un arma natural (puñetazo, patada, etc.) esta siempre preparada a" [Style]
  • p32, under "Ataques Cuerpo a Cuerpo", "Max; alcance 1/2D" -> "Max; el alcance 1/2D" [Missing Word]
  • p32, under "Ataques a Distancia", "por segundas extra apuntando" -> ""por segundos extra apuntando" [Mistranslation]
  • p32, under "Ataques a Distancia", "“Armas arrojadizas” son" -> "Las“Armas arrojadizas” son" [Missong word]
  • p32, under "Ataques a Distancia", "debes físicamente lanzar" -> "debes lanzar" (In Spanish, there's not need for specifying that you must physically hurl, it's assumend) [Mistranslation]
  • p32, under "Ataques a Distancia", "granadas de mano" -> "granadas" (Unless otherwise specified, granadas refers to hand grenades) [Mistranslation]
  • p32, under "Ataques a Distancia", "hachas de mano"-> "Hachuelas" [Mistranslation]
  • p32, under "Tabla de Tamaño y Velocidad/Distancia", "tabla utilize la" -> "tabla utiliza la" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Tabla de Tamaño y Velocidad/Distancia", "Tama–o" -> "Tamaño" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "tu tirada de ataca" -> "tu tirada de ataque" [Misspellin]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "evader o desviar un ataque: Esquivar (véase Esquivar), Parada (véase Parar), y Escudar (Véase Escudar)." -> "evadir o desviar un ataque: Esquiva (véase Esquiva), Parada (véase Parada), y Bloqueo (Véase Bloqueo)." [Misspelling/Style]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "defense active" -> "defensa activa" [Mispelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "defense active e sun" -> "defensa activa es un" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "(esquivar)" -> "(esquiva)" [Style]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "(parda)" -> "(parada)" [Style]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "(escudar)" -> "(Bloquear)" [Mistranslation]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "adversario realize" -> "adversario realiza" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "defense active" -> "defensa activa" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "“tirada de defense”" -> "“tirada de defensa”" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "segunda defense" -> "segunda defensa" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "primera defense" -> "primera defensa" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "La defense active" -> "La defensa activa" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "restringen las defenses activas" -> "restringen las defensas activas" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "tienes defense active si" -> "tienes defensa activa si" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "defnsa active en absolute" -> "defensa activa en absoluto" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Defensa", "estas incosciente" -> "estas inconsciente" [Misspelling]
  • p33, "Defensa Sin Armas" textbox [Interlingua]
  • p33, under "Tirada de Defensa", "tirada de defense active de 3" -> "tirada de defensa activa de 3" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Tirada de Defensa", "defense efectiva" -> ""defensa efectiva"[Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Tirada de Defensa", "de defense si sacaste" -> "de defensa si sacaste" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Tirada de Defensa", "aturdido, toda defense active" -> "aturdido, toda defensa activa" [Misspeling]
  • p33, under "Tirada de Defensa", "Si tienes un escudo dispuesti, suma su Bono de Defensa (BD) a cualquier tirada de Esquivar, Parar, o Escudar" -> "Si tienes un escudo preparado, suma su Bono de Defensa (BD) a cualquier tirada de Esquiva, Parada, o Bloqueo" [Misspelling/Misstranslation/Style]
  • p33, under "Defensas", "Esquivar" -> "Esquiva" [Style]
  • p33, under "Esquivar", "“Esquivar” es un intento activo" -> "Una “Esquiva” es un intento activo" [Style]
  • p33, under "Esquivar", "Defense" -> "Defensa" (Multiple times) [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Esquivar", "Esquivar es normalmente" -> "La Esquiva es normalmente" [Style]
  • p33, under "Esquivar", "Tu defense active Esquivar" -> "Tu Esquiva" [Misstranslation/Style]
  • p33, under "Esquivar", "Incombramento e Movimiento" [Interlingua]
  • p33, under "Esquivar", "Anota Esquivar en tu hoja de personaje para referencia rápida" -> "Anota tu Esquiva en tu hoja de personaje para referenciarla rápidamente" [Style/Sentence]
  • p33, under "Esquivar", "tirada de esquivar" -> "Tirada de Esquiva" [Style]
  • p33, under "Esquivar", "tienes una defense active" -> "tienes una defensa activa" [Style]
  • p33, under "Esquivar", "no hay límite al número de veces que puedes esquivar diferentes ataques durante tu turno." -> "no hay límite al número Esquivas que puedes realizar durante tu turno, siempre y cuando sea contra ataques separados." [Style/Sentence]
  • p33, under "Defensas", "Escudar" -> "Bloqueo" [Mistranslation]
  • p33, under "Escudar", "“Escudar” es un intento de" -> "Un “Bloqueo” es un intento de" [Mistranslation]
  • p33, under "Escudar", "escudo, cada, u otro objeto" -> "escudo, capa, u otro objeto" [Misspelling]
  • p33, under "Escudar", "escudo dispuesto" -> "escudo preparado" [Style]
  • p33, under "Escudar", "¡puedes escudarte con su cuerpo!" -> "¡puedes bloquear con su cuerpo!" [Style]
  • p34, under "Escudar", "Tu defense active Escudar es" -> "Tu Bloqueo es" [Misspelling/Misstranslation/Style]
  • p34, under "Escudar", "Escudo-11 proporciona un Escudar de" -> "Escudo-11 proporciona un Bloqueo de"
  • p34, under "Escudar", "En general, puedes escudarte de cualquier ataque cuerpo a cuerpo, arma arrojada, liquido proyectado, o arma de misiles de fuerza manual. No puedes escudarte de balas o armas de rayos . . . estas van demasiado rápidas para detenerlas así." -> "En general puedes bloquear cualquier ataque cuerpo a cuerpo, arma arrojadiza, liquido proyectado o arma de proyectiles basada en la fuerza del que la blande. No puedes bloquear balas o armas de rayos... estas van demasiado rápido como para deterlas asi" [Style/Misstranslation/Grammar/Sentence]
  • p34, under "Defensas", "Parar" -> "Parada" [Style]
  • p34, under "Parar", "tu arma esté dispuesta;" -> "tu arma esté preparada;" [Style]
  • p34, under "Parar", "Tu defense active Parada" -> "Tu Parada" [Misspelling/Style]
  • p34, under "Parar", "arma de misiles" -> "arma de proyectiles" [Misstranslation]
  • p34, under "Parar", "otras armas que pesen ? kg. o menos." -> "otras armas que pesen 1 lb. o menos." [Misspelling]
  • p34, under "Parar", "¡No tiene tirada de defense" -> "¡No tiene tirada de defensa" [Misspeling]
  • p34, under "Equipo del Defensor", "(0 contra frontal" -> Change "frontal" for whatever alternate translation available [Misstranslation]
  • p34, under "Maniobra del Defensor", "a uno entre Esquiva, Escudar, Parar" -> "a una defensa (Esquiva, Parada o Bloqueo) [Sentence/Style]
  • p34, under "Maniobra del Defensor", "solamente esquivar o escudar" -> "solamente esquivar o bloquear"[Mistranslation]
  • p34, under "Situación del Defensor", "Postura inestable:" -> "Terreno inapropiado" [Mistranslation]
  • p34, under "Situación del Defensor", "No puede var al agresor:" -> "No puede ver al agresor:" [Misspelling]
  • p34, under "situacion del Defensor", "Atontado:" -> "Aturdido" [Mistranslation]
  • p34, under "Naturaleza del Ataque", "Ataque pro la espalda:" -> "Ataque por la espalda:" [Misspelling]
  • p34, under "Nauraleza del Ataque", "Mayal: -4 a Parar/-2 a Escudar" -> "Mayal: -4 a Parada/-2 a Bloqueo" [Style]
  • p34, under "Naturaleza del Ataque", "Arma arrojada: -1 to Parar, o -2 a Parar si es pequeña (1/2 kg. o menos)" -> ""Arma arrojada: -1 a Parada, o -2 a Parada si es pequeña (1 lb. o menos)" [Leftover word/Style/Mistranslation]
  • p34, under "Daños y Lesiones", "(y para armas ed fuerza manual, tu FZ)" -> "(y tu FZ, para las armas basadas en ella)" [Mistranslation/Sentence/Style]
  • p34, under "Daños y Lesiones", "fracasó en penetrar" -> "no penetró" (So much simpler, and doesn't go against grammar) [Mistranslation]
  • p34, under "Daños y Lesiones", "(esto solo importa para cortante, penetrante, y ciertos tipos de daño punzante; véase más abajo)" -> "(esto solo importa para cortante, punzante, y ciertos tipos de daño perforante; véase más abajo)" (Coherence with how I renamed the damage types. As it is, it produces confusion by calling penetrating damage->"daño penetrante" and impalling damage->"daño penetrante") [Mistranslation]
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:09 AM   #38
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

  • p34, under "Daños y Lesiones", "se resta a sus Puntos de Impacto" -> "se resta a sus Puntos de Vida" [Mistranslation]
  • p34, under "Tirada de Daño", "otro tipo de ataque" -> "otro tipo de daño" [Mistranslation]
  • p34, under "Tirada de Daño", "El resultado de la tirada de ataque" -> "El resultado de la tirada de daño" [Mistranslation]
  • p35, under "Modificadores por heridas y lesiones", "Punzante (pu): x0.5." -> "Perforante superdicial (pe-): x0.5." [Style/Missing Word]
  • p35, under "Modificadores por heridas y lesiones", "Cortante (co) y punzante profundo (pu+)>: x1.5." -> "Cortante (co) y perforante profundo (pe+): x1.5." [Style]
  • p35, under "Modificadores por heridas y lesiones", "Penetrante (imp): x2" -> "Punzante (pu): x2" [Style]
  • p35, under "Modificadores por heridas y lesiones", "PI" -> "PV" multiple times [Style]

And here is the rest of the batch. Only 5 pages remain!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gkzhukov
...And regarding the thrust/swing translation, I would go for:
  • Thrust: Estocada
  • Swing: Tajo
The problem here being that this should work for crushing, cutting and impaling weapons. Your suggestions work well for sword-like weapons, but if you have a quarterstaff, you thrust with it, and you swing it, but you're neither doing "Estocadas" (normally associated with point objects) nor "Tajos" (that is usually associated with the wounds of cutting weapons). For further fun, imagine a pick, that does swing impaling...

3rd ed used "Acometida" for "Thrust", and I think it's the best we can find. It used "Mandoble" for Swing, and there is where we could find some improvement.

Also, I've added your recommendations on the tactical vest and the sniper riffle (though the sniper riffle one is somewhat iffy, since the term "rifle de francotirador" has been popularized by first person shooters, but since GURPS has a reputation for accurateness, I'll submit the accurate version) to my master document. I'm not going to edit the posts to include every small change I make. Damn 10000 character limit!
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Old 12-26-2008, 04:11 PM   #39
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroshima
(...) The problem here being that this should work for crushing, cutting and impaling weapons. Your suggestions work well for sword-like weapons, but if you have a quarterstaff, you thrust with it, and you swing it, but you're neither doing "Estocadas" (normally associated with point objects) nor "Tajos" (that is usually associated with the wounds of cutting weapons). For further fun, imagine a pick, that does swing impaling...

3rd ed used "Acometida" for "Thrust", and I think it's the best we can find. It used "Mandoble" for Swing, and there is where we could find some improvement.
I agree that is the core of the translation problem for Thrust/Swing in the GURPS context. If you choose a term, then it works well for a determinate type of attacks ("Tajo" for swinging swords), but it doesn't fit for other types of swinging attacks (OK, Kuroshima already said this).

"Estocada" (a proposed translation for Thrusting attacks, related with the Rapier -in Spanish, "Estoque") raises the same problem: it suits for Impaling attacks and such, but not for punches to the face. I agree currently "Acometida" can be the best term we have. We need a better alternative for Swing -"Mandoble" (this means a two handed sword attack and a Two Handed Sword, like an "Espadón").

However, all languages have their own intrinsic limitations and while no translation is perfect, it needs to work acceptably.
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:58 AM   #40
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

I would make the suggestion that if no term that is far and away a better translation of the concept can be found, that the 3e terms should be defaulted to when possible...
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