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Old 12-19-2008, 02:11 AM   #1
aruizo
 
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Default Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Hi! I've take a look to GURPS Lite Spanish and say that it have some mistakes mixing translation spanish and italian.

Anyone knows if someone in spain have gurps 4ed translation in mind?

Greets to everyone!
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by aruizo
Hi! I've take a look to GURPS Lite Spanish and say that it have some mistakes mixing translation spanish and italian.
In Spanish, I know only the third edition of GURPS Lite.

Quote:
Anyone knows if someone in spain have gurps 4ed translation in mind?
Seemingly not, but I can be wrong. In fact, I would wish to be wrong about this.

Regards
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Old 12-20-2008, 12:01 AM   #3
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

It would surprise me a lot to find out that the man who translated GURPS Lite to Spanish - who is himself Spanish - got the languages mixed up. Can you tell us why you think this is partly in Italian?
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

I must say that the translation is a mess. I've been waiting for it for a LONG time, and the results where... discouraging. Steve Jackson Games has a HUGE reputation for top notch editing, and I feel that this GURPS Lite HURTS it among the Spanish speaking community (that consists of not only Spain, but Latin America). It seems as if this guy simply met his deadline by delivering an unfinished product.

First, I'm native Spanish speaker, with acceptable levels of English and French. I do not know any Portuguese or Italian.

This is not a full review of the mistakes in GURPS Lite Spanish Edition:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GURPS Lite page 6
Basic Levation (BL)
Basic Levation esse le maxime peso que tu pote levar super tu capite con un
mano in un secunda. Esse equal a (FOxFO)/5 libras. Si le BL esse 10 libras o plus,
arrotunda al plus proxime numero integre; pro exemplo, 16.2 libras deveni 16 libras.
Le medie humano habe FO 10 e un BL de 20 libras.

Manetate
Decide si tu esee sinistromane o dextromane. Si tu essaya facer quecunque significante
con tu debile mano, tu esse a un pena de -4 a tu habilitate. Iste pena non
applica a cosas que tu normalmente face con tu debile mano, como usar un scuto.
GURPS non distingue inter le sinistromane o le dextromane; ambe esse 0 punctos.
Totevia, esser ambidextere esse un avantage que costa punctos – vide p. 9.
This is not Spanish. It feels like Italian or Portuguese. This happens in most (or all, I didn't to a through checking) the text boxes.

Now, it's not the only problem, just the most visible one. Some of the translations are babelfish-y, and in some part, an English word has slipped by (babelfish-y translation example-> Rate of Fire (GURPS) -> "Indice de fuego" (Gurps Lite Spanish Edition p. 23)-> Should be "Cadencia de Tiro"; leftover English word example-> Varies (GURPS Lite Spanish Edition p. 16 center column, second row)-> Should be "Varias")

I suggest that until you get someone to review the translation, you take it off the site. A half arsed translation can be acceptable for something on a fan webpage, but we've learnt to expect only the best editting from SJGames, and this hurts this image.
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Last edited by Kuroshima; 12-21-2008 at 08:53 AM. Reason: Checked the dictionary for some technical translations
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Old 12-20-2008, 12:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroshima
First, I'm native Spanish speaker
Me too. Like you, this concerns me in a degree. I didn't know this new version, so I just downloaded GURPS Lite 4e (Spanish).

"Wow!" (after glancing it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson
It would surprise me a lot to find out that the man who translated GURPS Lite to Spanish - who is himself Spanish - got the languages mixed up. Can you tell us why you think this is partly in Italian?
It is surprising, but actually he did that.
...Or something really close to that: it looks as Portuguese or maybe Italian (I don't know these languages). Kuroshima's example is true: the text he quoted here isn't Spanish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroshima
This is not a full review of the mistakes in GURPS Lite Spanish Edition: (...)
This is not Spanish. It feels like Italian or Portuguese. This happens in most (or all, I didn't to a through checking) the text boxes.

Now, it's not the only problem, just the most visible one
Cerrtainly. While there are some things better translated than in the earlier edition (IMHO), due this mess you are demonstrating here the current version of GURPS Lite 4e (Spanish) can be hurting GURPS regarding Spanish-speaking people.

Honest. Maybe it could be fixed.
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

I have meta-question.

Spanish, as I understand it, is a pretty diverse language. I recall from college classes that there's a formal castillian variety, and a dialect (if that is the word) associated with Latin American.

So . . . when a work is translated, is there a preferred dialect?

Spanish speakers would know this far better than I, but could some of the Italian and Portuguese words be due to the use of a more European flavored dialetc?


Just curious here!
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
(...) Just curious here!
Sure. The straight and simple answer is: Spanish is Spanish ;^) (*)

As a quick instance, when you install Windows XP or Vista in the computer, the language options are: Spanish (International) and Spanish (Spain).

It doesn't incorporate Italian or Portuguese. At most, it absorbed some English words (joking, sometimes we call that phenomena as "Spanglish"), mostly -but not exclusively- by the Latin American usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
Spanish speakers would know this far better than I, but could some of the Italian and Portuguese words be due to the use of a more European flavored dialetc?
That isn't the case, and it would be pointless because Italian, French, Portuguese, Romanian, Spanish... all them are romance languages, sharing the same roots. All them are equally European.

After reading better the PDF, definitely this GURPS Lite Spanish is completely awful, and I really second Kuroshima's suggestion of removing it of e23 until it can be fixed.

(*) While Spain is suffering a increasingly rapid disintegration process due provincial separatist motivations, currently still can be affirmed the existence of the Spanish language, independiently of the strong political polemic that unavoidably accompanies all the issue -and isn't my wish to raise it.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
I have meta-question.

Spanish, as I understand it, is a pretty diverse language. I recall from college classes that there's a formal castillian variety, and a dialect (if that is the word) associated with Latin American.
It's true that the Spanish that is spoken in Latin America is a different dialect from the one spoken in Spain, but it's mostly because the one spoken in Latin America uses a slightly different vocabulary (Mostly using worlds and constructions that are out of fashion in Spain) and a very different accent. It can be really hard to understand (but then some English accents are quite "special") for a Spaniard like me, at least at the beginning (For comparison, imagine someone speaking to you in shakespearian English).
Quote:
So . . . when a work is translated, is there a preferred dialect?
International standard Spanish, RAE (Real Academia de la lengua Española) definition. That is, the most aseptic, neutral Spanish. At least it's for me, but in written form, it's not that different from any other kind of Spanish.
Quote:
Spanish speakers would know this far better than I, but could some of the Italian and Portuguese words be due to the use of a more European flavored dialetc?

Just curious here!
Nope, it is not. Trust me on this. It's like someone didn't have enough time to meet a deadline, and put parts of another translation to try to make it look like he translated it.
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Thanks for the insights guys!

I read that the "Univision" TV station had to carefully chose a dialect (or at least accent) so that it would be appealing in all of the nations in which it is carried.

I guess this is not as much of a factor in written works.
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Old 12-20-2008, 08:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroshima
It's true that the Spanish that is spoken in Latin America is a different dialect from the one spoken in Spain, but it's mostly because the one spoken in Latin America uses a slightly different vocabulary (Mostly using worlds and constructions that are out of fashion in Spain) and a very different accent.
Completely true.

Quote:
It can be really hard to understand (but then some English accents are quite "special") for a Spaniard like me, at least at the beginning (...)
Yes, often it is difficult to understand well for Spanish people. It happens to me.

Quote:
Trust me on this. It's like someone didn't have enough time to meet a deadline, and put parts of another translation to try to make it look like he translated it.
Seconded: the translators of GURPS Lite Spanish (or whoever responsible of the document) have gulled SJG here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
I guess this is not as much of a factor in written works.
It is somewhat noticeable. However, the accent isn't a problem in this context.
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