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Old 02-01-2018, 11:47 AM   #11
SteveS
 
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Default Re: Grav Pong

For pirates, the most sensible approach is probably to aim some really scary looking weapons at the victim, maybe launch a target drone to demonstrate that they're real, and politely ask, "Would you be kind enough to open up your cargo doors and shove a hundred or so D-tons of your most valuable cargo into space. It would be most convenient if you would strap it together so it doesn't drift apart while we load it. To thank you for your assistance, we'd like to be able to turn off our weapons and not give your very expensive starship or your esteemed crew a taste of what we just did to that target drone."
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:54 AM   #12
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Default Re: Grav Pong

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Originally Posted by SteveS View Post
For pirates, the most sensible approach is probably to aim some really scary looking weapons at the victim, maybe launch a target drone to demonstrate that they're real, and politely ask, "Would you be kind enough to open up your cargo doors and shove a hundred or so D-tons of your most valuable cargo into space. It would be most convenient if you would strap it together so it doesn't drift apart while we load it. To thank you for your assistance, we'd like to be able to turn off our weapons and not give your very expensive starship or your esteemed crew a taste of what we just did to that target drone."
"Captain, what is that ticking sound I hear inside the container".
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: Grav Pong

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveS View Post
For pirates, the most sensible approach is probably to aim some really scary looking weapons at the victim, maybe launch a target drone to demonstrate that they're real, and politely ask, "Would you be kind enough to open up your cargo doors and shove a hundred or so D-tons of your most valuable cargo into space.
Eh, no. The key thing to remember is that killing the boarding party just means the pirate blows up your ship and kills everyone in it.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:15 AM   #14
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Default Re: Grav Pong

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Why not? (Assuming your grav belt could handle 6 Gs, that is. There's no doubt some cheap consumer models that only do one or two G, just meant for those quick runs to the flying grocery store above the corner.) The belt doesn't care which way is supposed to be down. Tell it to hold position, or accelerate no more than 1G in any direction, or 0.1 G in any direction.
Why does the belt not care which way is down? A Traveller grav belt is a lightweight device that lets you fly at a modest speed (and it's not super cheap, either).

In CT a gravbelt is TL12, KCr100, 10kg weight if turned off, speed as an air/raft (so about 100 km/h).

In MT a gravbelt is TL12, KCr100, 10kg, 4 hour battery life, or TL12, KCr110, 10kg, 8 hour battery. It's given 300 km/h maximum speed in atmosphere, 225 cruising, 40 km/h if nap-of-earth, and thrust is rated at 300kg (so about 3-4G for a vacc suited person).

In TNE's main rules they're given as much as the same as MT. However, the RCEG gives them quite different stats. The most important thing is that the CG field simply negates gravity, which would make it useless vs. a spaceship accelerating rather than using grav plates to smush you. They also use ducted fans for thrust and so won't work in vacuum. They're also massive: TL12, KCr114.96, 108kg, and TL15, KCr115.1, 90kg. They can lift someone in a powered suit, however. Acceleration would be ~0.1G.

In T4 it's TL12, KCr100, 20kg when off, 0.5G acceleration, max speed 200 km/h.

Can't find GURPS Traveller stats.

T20 has them as TL12, KCr9.232, and 120 km/h max speed. If I'm reading the rules right, acceleration would be about 0.5G.

Mong Trav 1e say: TL12, KCr100, 300 km/h, 4 hour duration (12 hours at TL15). For some reason it uses the Zero-G skill to operate, which seeing as messing up in normal operation still results in you falling from the sky seems a bit odd. 2e is the same, except reduces the speed to 100-200 km/h.

GURPS' Ultra-Tech gives GTL10^, $12K, 80 miles/hour, 1G acceleration, 20 pounds weight, 4 hours duration.

The only grav belt that seems to have much in the way of electronics is the heavy-weight TNE version. All but a couple of versions are not remotely cheap, and none of them have 6G thrust, most much less.

What you're talking about isn't a 'grav belt' it's a contragrav and heavy thruster equipped forced/hostile entry suit, and I'd assume it's also powered, and so on and so fourth. It's not something everyone entering a potentially hostile ship will have, by a long way.
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:45 AM   #15
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Default Re: Grav Pong

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Eh, no. The key thing to remember is that killing the boarding party just means the pirate blows up your ship and kills everyone in it.
Only if you don't counterboard.
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Old 02-11-2018, 06:47 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
Why does the belt not care which way is down?
Traveller grav tech doesn't seem to be defined as the sort that merely cancels out local gravity (even if they do sometimes use the word "contragrav", and do some handwaving as to why Air/Rafts have to struggle to reach orbit). It's a reactionless thruster, like a small version of the M-drives that push starships around, a jetpack except that it's high tech grav magic instead of a reaction engine. So, they can push you around without any local gravity to "react" against, even out in space.

A true contragrav would stop operating if you turned off the ship's gravity. It wouldn't be able to do anything, because the was no local gravity to fight. If you imagine Traveller grav tech as this sort, then they'd be useless versus the "turn off gravity and accelerate at 6G with the M-drive so that you're falling down a long corridor at 6G" attack. There's no gravity anywhere in that scenario.

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It's not something everyone entering a potentially hostile ship will have
That depends entirely on how common this sort of ship defense is. Every single Traveller group I've ever met has thought of the idea, so it's something of a stretch to think all boarding forces (including the Imperial Marines and Navy where so many got their training) would never have had the possibility cross their mind and would be unprepared for such a situation. It's a game, so you're welcome to pretend that the characters are innovative tactical geniuses so they can spring their trap, or have it sprung on them, because the villains are innovative tactical geniuses. It's not as though the "idiot ball" weren't so popular as to have its own trope entry. After all, to properly depict a super-genius plot, you'd have to be one...

Last edited by Anaraxes; 02-11-2018 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 02-11-2018, 11:47 AM   #17
SteveS
 
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Default Re: Grav Pong

Another point about the grav belt's property of being a gravity-magic jet pack is that if you're wearing a grav belt and enter a corridor where the defenders turn the gravity to 6G sideways, and your grav belt is set to hold you in position, the ship's 6G pull will be pulling all of your body one direction, and the grav belt's straps will be pulling on the surface of your body where its straps hold onto you. That's not likely to be very comfortable. And if a defender hidden around a corner under a standard gravity kicks a few desk chairs into your 6G corridor, you might be a bit less comfortable.
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: Grav Pong

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Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
Only if you don't counterboard.
The pirate isn't going to be conveniently next to you, he's going to send a small craft across with boarders. If you try to counterboard, he kills you.
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:46 AM   #19
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Default Re: Grav Pong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Traveller grav tech doesn't seem to be defined as the sort that merely cancels out local gravity (even if they do sometimes use the word "contragrav", and do some handwaving as to why Air/Rafts have to struggle to reach orbit). It's a reactionless thruster, like a small version of the M-drives that push starships around, a jetpack except that it's high tech grav magic instead of a reaction engine. So, they can push you around without any local gravity to "react" against, even out in space.

A true contragrav would stop operating if you turned off the ship's gravity. It wouldn't be able to do anything, because the was no local gravity to fight. If you imagine Traveller grav tech as this sort, then they'd be useless versus the "turn off gravity and accelerate at 6G with the M-drive so that you're falling down a long corridor at 6G" attack. There's no gravity anywhere in that scenario.

That depends entirely on how common this sort of ship defense is. Every single Traveller group I've ever met has thought of the idea, so it's something of a stretch to think all boarding forces (including the Imperial Marines and Navy where so many got their training) would never have had the possibility cross their mind and would be unprepared for such a situation. It's a game, so you're welcome to pretend that the characters are innovative tactical geniuses so they can spring their trap, or have it sprung on them, because the villains are innovative tactical geniuses. It's not as though the "idiot ball" weren't so popular as to have its own trope entry. After all, to properly depict a super-genius plot, you'd have to be one...
See, the thing is, a grav belt as listed in all the equipment lists, has nothing about being able to counter rapidly changing grav fields, work upside down, or any of that stuff. So, as I said earlier, you're not talking about a normal off-the-shelf device, but a specialist one. Yes, the Imperial Marines probably have them, but the vast majority of people won't.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:36 AM   #20
hal
 
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Default Re: Grav Pong

it occurs to me to wonder...

If grav plates can do that much damage that quickly - and something as simple as stepping across a gravity gradient can cause a medical emergency from a fall, would it not make sense to manufacture such plates as to NOT be able to do that which is being claimed would be standard procedure?

Imagine a hacker getting into the controls and setting them to go bonkers unexpectedly.

In addition, I can't believe that a 6G field would be something that anyone would think is safe to manufacture for any reason where people are expected to go.

Then there comes this kind of thing...

Are those hallways actively BUILT to withstand a sudden flex or torsion of 6 G's in specific locations not originally DESIGNED for them? Hell - most structures designed to withstand gravity do so on the premise that the gravity will be applied in a coherent and continual basis. If something as simple as doubling the effects of gravitational mass can occur unexpectedly - one would think that ALL structures have to be over-engineered on the off chance that even something as much as a 2G field might snap a support, or what have you.

Inertial compensators - do they actively protect against structural stresses induced by grav plates?

For now - I suggest that people re-evaluate whether or not grav pong is something that they want to introduce for their campaign worlds. While NEAT in concept, I can't help but think that we're all missing the big picture.

For example....



Code:
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII



__________________________________________________________

Picture the top I's as the support structure for the upper part of the walk way or gangway through a ship. The __________________________ represent the floor so to speak with a 1 G field. Now, let's imagine what happens when you have a simple 3G field being applied for only a short segment (relatively speaking) for the corridor:


Code:
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII               IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
                            III          II
                               IIIIIIIIII


1111111111111111111111111111333333333333333331111111111111111111111111111111111
The numbers on the flooring represent the gravity field being exerted by the plates in the floor. First off, what happens on the floor itself where the grav plate exerts a 3 G attraction. Won't it pull UP to some extent because it is attempting to pull a largely unmoving massive object TOWARDS it? Won't the ceiling sturcture be warped as well, causing it to perhaps buckle unexpectedly unless it were DELIBERATELY designed to withstand that level of stress? If it is deliberately designed to withstand that stress, then it has to be over-engineered because most stresses are supposed to be only 1 G, not three.

My take on this? Grav plates are deliberately designed with safety over-rides to insure that they can't be used in the fashion stated for Grav pong. Imagine using a grav plate on a floor in a 1 G world, and adding 2 G's unexpectedly. Suddenly, the individual is being hit with sufficient G force as to emulate an individual being thrust into orbit.

So, my gut instinct is to say "nope, the ship isn't designed to handle that level of freakishly high gravitational fields. Using that kind of an arrangement may cause structural damage to the ship's corridors at the very least. Having grav plates that can alter gravitational polarity (or what ever you want to call it where you change the field from 1 G to 6 G in a lateral direction rather than horizontal direction) QUICKLY would be seen as something that is too dangerous to manufacture INTO such plates. The first time a kid watches his parents utilize the safety interlock to avoid changes in settings, is going to potentially break his neck as he leans over from a 1G field with only his HEAD and a portion of his neck in the 6 G field. I seriously doubt that body frames can handle that.

Just my two cents...
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