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Old 02-14-2018, 02:32 PM   #41
Kromm
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Default Re: Combat Reflexes without defense bonus

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[...] it has been unchanged for 30 years because it works.
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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Yes, 3rd edition was published in 1988, thirty years ago.
History is the main reason for the pricing. If it were a really peripheral trait nobody bothered with, it might have been repriced at some point . . . but it wasn't. It's interesting to note that it cost 15 points in Man to Man (© 1985) and didn't include +1 to active defenses, but picked up that bonus in GURPS Third Edition (© 1988) without a price change.

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Or, to look at it from the other side, why do combat heroes get such a discount on the bundle of capabilities that make up their essential advantage when other characters don't?
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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Well Magery 0 is only 5 points.
It's actually a very common phenomenon: wizards get access to wizardly magic with Magery 0 [5], clerics gain priestly magic with Power Investiture 1 [10], strange mystics can have any skill they can convince the GM to let them have with Reawakened [10] and/or bonuses to everything they do with Visualization [10], and so on. I won't opine on whether that's good design. I will say that with templates that keep people from having more than one of these traits, it can feel balanced in actual play.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:39 PM   #42
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Default Re: Combat Reflexes without defense bonus

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
It's interesting to note that it cost 15 points in Man to Man (© 1985) and didn't include +1 to active defenses, but picked up that bonus in GURPS Third Edition (© 1988) without a price change.
Oddly, Night Vision went from half penalty (for [10]) in 2nd edition, to no penalty (still for [10]) in 3rd edition, to the current rule which never costs more than [9].
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:40 PM   #43
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Default Re: Combat Reflexes without defense bonus

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I don't think I'd allow an SOP Perk that let characters be alert while sleeping. Or while engaged in certain very distracting activities.
Combats Reflexes probably ought not be that reliable while sleeping either.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:42 PM   #44
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Default Re: Combat Reflexes without defense bonus

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Being permanently at Alert Yellow without going insane is a superpower, not a perk (and yes, combat reflexes, as written, is a superpower).
Insanity is legal thing, and depends on the culture. Combat Reflexes certainly could be considered insanity by complacent people.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:52 PM   #45
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Default Re: Combat Reflexes without defense bonus

Not really. Insanity is a neurological phenomena, though whether insanity is a valid excuse for certain behaviors is a legal convention.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:59 PM   #46
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Default Re: Combat Reflexes without defense bonus

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Insanity is legal thing, and depends on the culture. Combat Reflexes certainly could be considered insanity by complacent people.
Well, no. Combat reflexes as implemented in GURPS is not insane. It probably just doesn't correspond to any real-world trait.

The real-world trait is something like:
Trained Response: there is a specific situation that you have learned to react to immediately, without needing deliberation, so if you are totally surprised by that situation, you take your trained response instead of Do Nothing. On the minus side, this can also be triggered by a situation that merely resembles the situation you have training for, resulting in an inappropriate response; thus, a trained response of 'Attack' is usually a poor idea.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:34 PM   #47
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Default Re: Combat Reflexes without defense bonus

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Not really. Insanity is a neurological phenomena, though whether insanity is a valid excuse for certain behaviors is a legal convention.
No, there's no such medical diagnosis as "insanity".
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:05 PM   #48
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Default Re: Combat Reflexes without defense bonus

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You put it better than I could, but those two things are big factors in why I asked the question. I don't want to get rid of Combat Reflexes, but I do want to break it out to some of its constituent parts (thus why my CR serves as a buy in allowing enhanced defenses), while also making it something other than "cheap way to get +1 defense."
I have Enhanced Block/ Parry/ Dodge +1 available with a special exercises perk.
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:56 PM   #49
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Default Re: Combat Reflexes without defense bonus

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Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
Nope, I'm forgetting nothing. To give +2 to a skill is 4 points (p. B118).
+1 per 2 points was not what you had in your post...




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Well, no. Combat reflexes as implemented in GURPS is not insane. It probably just doesn't correspond to any real-world trait.

The real-world trait is something like:
Trained Response: there is a specific situation that you have learned to react to immediately, without needing deliberation, so if you are totally surprised by that situation, you take your trained response instead of Do Nothing. On the minus side, this can also be triggered by a situation that merely resembles the situation you have training for, resulting in an inappropriate response; thus, a trained response of 'Attack' is usually a poor idea.
That pretty accurately represents how some of my ex-soldier buddies operated for a long while after coming back from war.

Sudden loud noise that is similar to gunfire or explosives? Take cover.

Someone grabs them from behind out of the blue? Break the hold, drop and roll to distance, spin to confirm threat and respond.

I know after years of martial arts and living in very bad areas I have a few trained responses to being grabbed in certain ways. Or moving to a defensive position if someone moves suddenly in a 'non-complacent' situation.

Like performing a breakfall, these are almost autonomous responses to stimuli.


Hmmm. I like this Trained Response Perk. I might just replace Combat Reflexes in a future campaign with Enhanced Defenses, Trained Response, etc...
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:14 PM   #50
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Default Re: Combat Reflexes without defense bonus

That is more a human version of Panic Reflexes (http://panoptesv.com/RPGs/Ads-n'-stuff/PanicR.html) with some level of a human version of Panic (http://panoptesv.com/RPGs/Ads-n'-stuff/Panic.html). Combat Reflexes is a version that does not require Panic to purchase.
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