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Old 02-14-2018, 09:51 AM   #21
sir_pudding
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

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Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
If you want to run a spaghetti western game with cthulhu monsters and steampunk gadgets, for instance, you've already got everything you need while, with Pathfinder, you will have a lot of rule work to make, starting from all the character classes and their development.
Actually that's a game that PFRPG won't actually have to stretch much to do. In fact, one of those things: Mythos creatures are actually much easier in PFRPG than GURPS (because Paizo, unlike SJGames, has a license for them). Otherwise it has the Gunslinger class, rules for late 19th century firearms, the Mythos related classes in Occult Adventures, and a smattering of steampunk gadgets.

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Old 02-14-2018, 12:11 PM   #22
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

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Actually that's a game that PFRPG won't actually have to stretch much to do. In fact, one of those things: Mythos creatures are actually much easier in PFRPG than GURPS (because Paizo, unlike SJGames, has a license for them). Otherwise it has the Gunslinger class, rules for late 19th century firearms, the classes in Occult Adventures, and a smattering of steampunk gadgets.
Oh! Thank you for the information. I knew that Pathfinder had Cthulhu Mythos monsters, but I didn't know he also had a Gunslinger class and rules for the late 19th century firearms ...

Now, as you know it, it was just an example among many others. It's still harder to play in every possible universe with Pathfinder than with GURPS because, precisely, you need those fully developed classes for each kind of characters the players may want. While, with GURPS, you don't need them at all - just choose the advantages, disadvantages and skills which best fit to the character you imagine and it's done.
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:57 PM   #23
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In addition, while Initiative is important, it is not critical. A character can use various tactics and techniques to compensate for being slow (Counterattack, Riposte, and Wait are all legitimate options).
Or just avoid being in direct contact with the enemy on the first turn of combat. Initiative is a round-robin, the 'slowest' character has the initiative on their turn just as much as the fastest one on theirs. The only place where high speed values for turn order really matter is when at least one side is out of position at the start of combat and you want to either exploit that before they can fix it, or fix it before it can be exploited.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:24 PM   #24
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

As someone who has played and run both systems since 1st edition...just my 2 coppers.

Pathfinder is a setting expansion that uses the d20 system.
GURPS is a system that has different settings as expansions.

As for complexity, both systems may get extremely deep.

I strongly agree with sticking with GURPS simple fantasy or the self-contained DFRPG (NOT Dungeon Fantasy splatbooks for GURPS, that is a different animal) at least until you cut your teeth on the system.

One thing to keep in mind with GURPS is that there are many more ways of doing the exact same thing in the GURPS system than there are in Pathfinder.

Also GURPS you CAN do everything...but the cost is much higher as everything costs more 'points' to do as opposed to be granted once you hit a certain level. GURPS doesn't have class levels. Or classes for that matter.

Anyway welcome and enjoy the ride!
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:45 PM   #25
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

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Or just avoid being in direct contact with the enemy on the first turn of combat. Initiative is a round-robin, the 'slowest' character has the initiative on their turn just as much as the fastest one on theirs. The only place where high speed values for turn order really matter is when at least one side is out of position at the start of combat and you want to either exploit that before they can fix it, or fix it before it can be exploited.
This is true of Sequence, but what GURPS calls "Initiative" is a huge benefit to the side that has it. The other side is Stunned until they recover, and it certainly doesn't "round robin" to stun the ambushers.
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:29 PM   #26
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This is true of Sequence, but what GURPS calls "Initiative" is a huge benefit to the side that has it. The other side is Stunned until they recover, and it certainly doesn't "round robin" to stun the ambushers.
This is true, but there's no way AlexanderHowl was referring to the latter rather than the former.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:58 PM   #27
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Yes, initiative as in order of actions, not who can act in a surprise turn (though Initiative is critical during that type of situation).
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:17 PM   #28
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Yes, initiative as in order of actions, not who can act in a surprise turn (though Initiative is critical during that type of situation).
A surprise turn is a thing in D&D but is not a thing in GURPS.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:48 PM   #29
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A surprise turn is a thing in D&D but is not a thing in GURPS.
Well, not by that name. In either partial or total surprise, the side that loses initiative is mentally stunned at the start of combat, and (if not totally surprised) can attempt to recover on their turn. Thus, if one character has basic speed 6, a second has basic speed 5, and their opponent is at basic speed 5.5, the first character gets to attack a stunned opponent (-4 to defense) and can safely all-out attack (because that opponent will not be able to act before his next turn), while if the enemy recovers on his turn, which is fairly likely (and near certain with combat reflexes), the second character doesn't benefit from the stunned penalty to defense and cannot safely all-out attack.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:18 PM   #30
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With total surprise, a character can benefit from multiple surprise turns against the stunned target(s).
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