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Old 02-14-2018, 07:59 AM   #1
Cowrie
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Default [Powers/Horror] Leech build and related questions.

I'm working on a power that includes two different versions of the Leech advantage. One is basically copied from the version of Leech the succubus in Horror has. The other is more original. Basically, it's supposed to be an life-draining kiss.

First of all, I want it to be stopped by worn armor, or even clothes, but ignore natural DR. I'm pretty sure this would be a limited limitation on Contact Agent, but I'm not sure how much to limit it by. Thoughts?

Second, I want it so it only works by a kiss, though the kiss doesn't need to be mutual, or even on the lips of the person being drained. What would a limitation like that be worth?

For that matter, what would be the best way to handle kissing an opponent in combat? Would it be a technique, and if so, what would make the most sense for it to be based on? A grappling skill? Sex Appeal? Erotic Art?

Finally, what's the best way to handle an individual that has both forms of the Leech advantage this power grants? Alternate attacks?
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:57 AM   #2
ericthered
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Default Re: [Powers/Horror] Leech build and related questions.

For using both forms, alternate attack seems like a strong approach.

Kissing an unwilling opponent would be grappling, just like a vampire's bite.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:58 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Powers/Horror] Leech build and related questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowrie View Post
First of all, I want it to be stopped by worn armor, or even clothes, but ignore natural DR. I'm pretty sure this would be a limited limitation on Contact Agent, but I'm not sure how much to limit it by. Thoughts?
Could you define "natural armor" here? Is that any armor that a creature grows naturally (i.e., it's biological)? Or any armor that's on the character sheet as DR (e.g., would someone who could project a forcefield count as having "natural armor")? Quite a lot of biological armor has the Tough Skin limitation, which Contact Agent is already effective against, unmodified. Will that do what you want? If it won't, you're right, you'll need to limit Contact Agent to some degree. I'd say that Works Against any Biological Armor is probably a reasonable -33% limitation on Contact Agent (that is, turns it into a -20% limitation instead of a -30% one), while "works through any non-equipment DR" is more of a -66% limitation on Contact Agent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowrie
Second, I want it so it only works by a kiss, though the kiss doesn't need to be mutual, or even on the lips of the person being drained. What would a limitation like that be worth?
You already have to define what part of your body an attack comes from, so I'd say this is a feature, not a limitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowrie
For that matter, what would be the best way to handle kissing an opponent in combat? Would it be a technique, and if so, what would make the most sense for it to be based on? A grappling skill? Sex Appeal? Erotic Art?
I'd base it on Brawling if it's supposed to just be a "quick peck", or Wrestling if it's supposed to be a bit more... intense. At -2 either way. I'd also allow Erotic Art at -4. As a special effect for all three skills, I'd say that the face could be targeted at only -2 (or -1, for the grapple), but the torso would be targeted at -3, instead of -0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowrie
Finally, what's the best way to handle an individual that has both forms of the Leech advantage this power grants? Alternate attacks?
Rather than Alternative Attacks, I'd look at the Alternative Enhancements rule (Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, p. 13). If you don't have that available, the way it works, briefly, is you can choose a couple of enhancements that you want to have on an ability, but only one at a time. Take the higher-value one at full value, and divide the other one's value by 5. The rule doesn't explicitly say so, but I think it's reasonable to build a pair of abilities this way by treating all the enhancements and limitations that define each as a "package", totalling up the prices for each set, and dividing the cheaper one by 5.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:59 AM   #4
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: [Powers/Horror] Leech build and related questions.

Contact Agent (-30%) covers skin contact with the victim while Blood Agent (-40%) covers contact with exposed wounds and mucous membranes of the target. A quick kiss (unsuitable for Leech) would probably be the greater of Brawling or DX while a sustained kiss (suitable for Leech) would probably require a grapple in close combat (rolling against the greater of DX, Judo, or Wrestling). It would be unnecessarily expensive to have two different forms, as the one with Contact Agent is capable of being used in a kiss (the kiss is just flavor at that point).
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:33 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Powers/Horror] Leech build and related questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Could you define "natural armor" here? Is that any armor that a creature grows naturally (i.e., it's biological)? Or any armor that's on the character sheet as DR (e.g., would someone who could project a forcefield count as having "natural armor")? Quite a lot of biological armor has the Tough Skin limitation, which Contact Agent is already effective against, unmodified. Will that do what you want? If it won't, you're right, you'll need to limit Contact Agent to some degree. I'd say that Works Against any Biological Armor is probably a reasonable -33% limitation on Contact Agent (that is, turns it into a -20% limitation instead of a -30% one), while "works through any non-equipment DR" is more of a -66% limitation on Contact Agent.
I meant biological armor. Thanks for covering a variety of scenarios, though, since I bet those will be useful to someone else. Those limitation values seem pretty fair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
You already have to define what part of your body an attack comes from, so I'd say this is a feature, not a limitation.
I was under the impression that unmodified leech could work through any part of your body, and was thinking that a kiss being required would be limiting due to being able to be stopped by being gagged or something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Rather than Alternative Attacks, I'd look at the Alternative Enhancements rule (Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, p. 13). If you don't have that available, the way it works, briefly, is you can choose a couple of enhancements that you want to have on an ability, but only one at a time. Take the higher-value one at full value, and divide the other one's value by 5. The rule doesn't explicitly say so, but I think it's reasonable to build a pair of abilities this way by treating all the enhancements and limitations that define each as a "package", totalling up the prices for each set, and dividing the cheaper one by 5.
The problem with this is that the other form of Leech ends up working out to a net Limitation with everything involved. I'm pretty sure that disqualifies it from using this rule.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:44 AM   #6
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: [Powers/Horror] Leech build and related questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowrie View Post
I was under the impression that unmodified leech could work through any part of your body, and was thinking that a kiss being required would be limiting due to being able to be stopped by being gagged or something.
Re-reading Leech, and given the requirement for grappling, I'd actually say that it's not just any part of your body, it's basically all of your body. In any case, given that Leech is a "genericized" version of Vampiric Bite, I'd say that the specific body part you draw the HP through is still a special effect. There's no limitation on Leech like "requires bite" or anything like that, which still says to me it's a feature (Vampiric Bite is basically Leech with Blood Agent, but how you drink the blood is actually not a limitation, just that the target must be bleeding).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowrie
The problem with this is that the other form of Leech ends up working out to a net Limitation with everything involved. I'm pretty sure that disqualifies it from using this rule.
This is the Succubus' Kiss ability from Horror, correct? If that's the one you're thinking of, I'd suggest either adding enough enhancements or removing limitations from it, in order to get it up to a positive modifier value, or else just handwaving it as effectively a 0% modifier, applying the full cost of the more expensive set of modifiers, and just saying it's a feature that you can switch to this other, much more limited version of the ability if you choose to.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:22 PM   #7
Cowrie
 
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Default Re: [Powers/Horror] Leech build and related questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Re-reading Leech, and given the requirement for grappling, I'd actually say that it's not just any part of your body, it's basically all of your body. In any case, given that Leech is a "genericized" version of Vampiric Bite, I'd say that the specific body part you draw the HP through is still a special effect. There's no limitation on Leech like "requires bite" or anything like that, which still says to me it's a feature (Vampiric Bite is basically Leech with Blood Agent, but how you drink the blood is actually not a limitation, just that the target must be bleeding).
Good point, you're probably right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
This is the Succubus' Kiss ability from Horror, correct? If that's the one you're thinking of, I'd suggest either adding enough enhancements or removing limitations from it, in order to get it up to a positive modifier value, or else just handwaving it as effectively a 0% modifier, applying the full cost of the more expensive set of modifiers, and just saying it's a feature that you can switch to this other, much more limited version of the ability if you choose to.
Well, it's the succubus's ability from horror, yes, but that build of leech isn't given a unique name and it works via "sexual contact" rather than a kiss. Alternately, do you think it would be fair to work this new build down to a negative modifier instead and use the rule for alternate limitations via multiplication on the two "package" costs? Because as of right now, the only thing making the new build an overall enhancement is that it has the "Addictive Bite" modifier, from Horror, which I'm not sure I want to keep in any case.
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