Steal Youth doesn't need to be sinister

[Plane]

It seems like a big deal, forcing your victim to lose 2 years from their lifespan... but M158 lists the healing spell "Youth" as a prereq...

M94 is a "one try per month" spell which removes 1 year from age...

So if you had a friend you were making 2 years younger per 2 months, and then stole 2 years from him, you could make yourself 6 years younger per year without actually negatively impacting their lifespan at all...

Not only that, but since "Youth" has "Halt Aging" as a prereq, you could cast that on them too each month, so while you're extending your lifespan 6 years/year their lifespan will be extended 1year/year.

I guess why it ends up being sinister is the cost: selfish mages don't want to "waste" 100+100 energy giving back stolen years when they could stockpile their own with simplicity for a mere 10.

I could still see good mages learning this necromancy though, since while you could in theory cast "Halt Aging" or "Youth" on yourself, you would suffer the penalty for using healing spells on self instead of others, so it could be more efficient to heal others and then use necromancy to feed on them.

The "one try per month" would also limit self de-aging rates, but since you could try once per month on multiple subjects and use Steal Youth which has no "one try per" limits (except when made into an Enchantment) it could be used to reach unlimited rates of de-aging with a large enough pool of targets.

[Tomsdad]

I think you are right a lot of "bad" magic comes down to how you use it and the lengths you go to mitigate it.

Your post did make me think of the classic twist on the steal youth spell in society. Your society has the death penalty for some crimes?

Cool "I sentence you to death by Steal youth", perhaps with mages paying for access to the sentenced (perhaps with invested groups of mages involved in setting the legal code, or even passing judgement in cases!)

Another option, is your society based on a rigid caste system and strong belief in reincarnation (which is the only way to move between castes)? Well the devout might have a strong motivation to speed the process along. Especially if you have a priest/mage caste at the top who can help ensure that reincarnation upward mobility for an extra few years of course. The cynical might say that's a scam but of course it's natural that this higher caste of priest/mages have this power and longevity, they're karmically further up the reincarnation pyramid than others after all. Which is also why the lower castes don't live as long! Of course a member of a lower caste showing such a strong commitment to improving their karmic standing is clearly a righteous and good candidate for an improvement in their karmic position next time round!

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Your post did make me think of the classic twist on the steal youth spell in society. Your society has the death penalty for some crimes?

Cool "I sentence you to death by Steal youth", perhaps with mages paying for it access to (perhaps with invested groups of mages involved in setting the legal code, or even passing judgement in cases!)

And now I have a reason to see how that spell would be built in my house system, or tweak the system if its not an option.
Cool, thought of how its allowed already just during my reply!
But I'm going to add a Justicar style or something that has it and a few other things.
Not only Death Sentence but it could be a way to exact wereguild and make criminals pay restitution to their victims.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Refplace

And now I have a reason to see how that spell would be built in my house system, or tweak the system if its not an option.
Cool, thought of how its allowed already just during my reply!
But I'm going to add a Justicar style or something that has it and a few other things.
Not only Death Sentence but it could be a way to exact wereguild and make criminals pay restitution to their victims.

Nice, I like the wereguild angle!

Edit: and to extend the concept, debtor's prisons could be done away with, debt to be paid with years (extra nastiness, think about other organisations and groups that have used debt as a trap to coerce people).

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Your post did make me think of the classic twist on the steal youth spell in society. Your society has the death penalty for some crimes?

Cool "I sentence you to death by Steal youth", perhaps with mages paying for access to the sentenced (perhaps with invested groups of mages involved in setting the legal code, or even passing judgement in cases!)

I feel like there's quite enough corruption in any justice system without there being people whose lives literally depend on getting a set number of convictions every year.

[awesomenessofme1]

This thread has made me realize there's no RAW way to build an advantage that gives youth. It should definitely be Affliction with Permanent, but I don't think there's ever been a rule for how to price it. It definitely shouldn't be too high, since Advantage (Extended Lifespan 1) is only +20%, but I don't know what the price should be.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Plane

It seems like a big deal, forcing your victim to lose 2 years from their lifespan... but M158 lists the healing spell "Youth" as a prereq...

M94 is a "one try per month" spell which removes 1 year from age...

So if you had a friend you were making 2 years younger per 2 months, and then stole 2 years from him, you could make yourself 6 years younger per year without actually negatively impacting their lifespan at all....

Of course that makes no sense at all. You could just cast Youth on yourself and cut out the middle man. Anyone who learns Steal Youth with that prerequisite chain is looking for a cheaper approach, and perhaps one that will reach out and hurt somone they aren't fond of.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Of course that makes no sense at all. You could just cast Youth on yourself and cut out the middle man. Anyone who learns Steal Youth with that prerequisite chain is looking for a cheaper approach, and perhaps one that will reach out and hurt somone they aren't fond of.

In fact, if it's one try per person per month (don't have my books with me), you could just cast it on yourself and your friend once a month and deage both of you 12 years/year.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

This thread has made me realize there's no RAW way to build an advantage that gives youth. It should definitely be Affliction with Permanent, but I don't think there's ever been a rule for how to price it. It definitely shouldn't be too high, since Advantage (Extended Lifespan 1) is only +20%, but I don't know what the price should be.

A little convoluted, but Affects Others on Leech should allow you to steal whatever your Leech goes after (HP, FP, Youth, whatever) and give it to someone else. I’d have no problem with such a character attacking themselves with Leech to basically transfer from themselves to their ally. This does have the issue of not creating youth, only transferring it. You could potentially combine it with a temporary version of Extended Lifespan to create youth, however. Basically, you extend their lifespan to twice normal, then steal 4 years. When their lifespan returns to normal, that -4 years should become -2 years (to be the same proportion of their lifespan). You give them 3 years back, so that in the end each of you have gained 1 year. This assumes you adjust things proportionally, of course.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Varyon

A little convoluted, but Affects Others on Leech should allow you to steal whatever your Leech goes after (HP, FP, Youth, whatever) and give it to someone else. I’d have no problem with such a character attacking themselves with Leech to basically transfer from themselves to their ally. This does have the issue of not creating youth, only transferring it. You could potentially combine it with a temporary version of Extended Lifespan to create youth, however. Basically, you extend their lifespan to twice normal, then steal 4 years. When their lifespan returns to normal, that -4 years should become -2 years (to be the same proportion of their lifespan). You give them 3 years back, so that in the end each of you have gained 1 year. This assumes you adjust things proportionally, of course.

If you had Unaging (possibly with the enhancement that let's you change your age), you would have an infinite pool of youth to draw from. But that seems more complicated than it needs to be. I'd also want it to be an Affliction so I could easily add Increased Attributes (Only for those lost due to failed aging rolls).