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Old 06-26-2019, 11:45 AM   #41
naloth
 
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Default Re: Minor League Supers [Powers/Supers]

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
which is irrelevant when speccing Claire.
Actually it means that either assumption it valid. I'd err on the side of power modifiers being similar enough that all the characters are affected or none of them.

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They lose HT, see page 16 of Meltdown and fallout, section "Radiation Damage to Exotic People".
Not sure what you're referring to. Characters 16 refers to HT damage for fatigue taken. Campaigns conversely says "machines" (non-living, ItMH) aren't affected by rad damage unless they have the electrical disadvantage.

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If you don't have Regrowth, Regeneration doesn't effect crippling healing times.

Regeneration doesn't heal scars any better than having Rapid Healing.
Regrowth recovers lost bits rather than damaged bits.

Regrowth doesn't have any commentary on crippling injuries at all. Regrowth doesn't specify anything about scarring either. I don't see anything in either basic book or Powers to indicate that it helps in any way that regeneration wouldn't. The only synergy that I find stated is that regeneration speeds regrowth times for lost bits.

With Unkillable you can also take a one point Perk "No Visible Damage" which prevents the amputation of any bits. That would completely eliminate the need for Regrowth.

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Heroes has Time Travel, its quite possible a "regenerator" could end up being sent back to the past, like Charlie Andrews.
Isn't this the opposite of what you argued above? It's not shown in the show that she could survive long times. Someone merely says she *should* be able to. For all her healing and other abilities, she ends up meeting her end before she could make a single aging roll. She's never in a situation where it would be relevant. This is a flavor trait without substance.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:34 PM   #42
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Default Re: Minor League Supers [Powers/Supers]

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Actually it means that either assumption it valid.
No it doesn't, that's a logical phallacy called "Argument from ignorance".

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Not sure what you're referring to. Characters 16 refers to HT damage for fatigue taken. Campaigns conversely says "machines" (non-living, ItMH) aren't affected by rad damage unless they have the electrical disadvantage.
I'm referring to Page 16 of Meltdown and Fallout

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Regrowth doesn't have any commentary on crippling injuries at all.
I believe Kromm has said if you have Regeneration and Regrowth you recover from crippling injuries faster.

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Regrowth doesn't specify anything about scarring either.
Deep Beyond page 112:
Quote:
It can lose fingers, toes, or even its tongue and grow them back in few weeks or months while skin quickly recovers from dermal scarring.
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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
With Unkillable you can also take a one point Perk "No Visible Damage" which prevents the amputation of any bits. That would completely eliminate the need for Regrowth.
No Visible Damage, means you don't appear damaged, enough injury will still leave you permanently maimed. Also Claire is quite Visibly Damaged
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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Isn't this the opposite of what you argued above? It's not shown in the show that she could survive long times.
Adam also has the "Regenerator" package and he's still the same physical age 400 years later.
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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Someone merely says she *should* be able to.
Someone whose super power is an intuitive understanding of other super powers.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:38 PM   #43
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Default Re: Minor League Supers [Powers/Supers]

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Because there were technological countermeasures uses against others.
Generic countermeasures or countermeasures that were specific to the individual?
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:17 PM   #44
naloth
 
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Default Re: Minor League Supers [Powers/Supers]

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
No it doesn't, that's a logical phallacy called "Argument from ignorance".
The source material doesn't say so, and plenty of counter evidence suggests that other supers (similar source?) were affected. Lack of evidence isn't a fallacy; it's a reality. Deciding how to handle the unknown is a judgement call: Claire could be a special case or you lump her into how the others seem to work. Neither is "wrong" in any way.

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I'm referring to Page 16 of Meltdown and Fallout
That's nice, but I don't own it and it seems to disagree with rules present in Campaigns which works for all genres. Perhaps fallout has specific rules for a specific situation.

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I believe Kromm has said if you have Regeneration and Regrowth you recover from crippling injuries faster.
I seem to recall regeneration increasing all recovery rates. Perhaps someone will search?

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No Visible Damage, means you don't appear damaged, enough injury will still leave you permanently maimed. Also Claire is quite Visibly Damaged
It gives you many if not all the benefits of an indestructible skeleton. It's not just appearances. Mostly, though, I was using this as a note for what you need to buy in addition to Unkillable to avoid needing Regrowth to avoid losing body parts.

Quote:
Adam also has the "Regenerator" package and he's still the same physical age 400 years later.
Someone whose super power is an intuitive understanding of other super powers.
I don't believe it was stated that Adam's power worked just like Claire's, but if it did there's certainly grounds for limitations to take it all the way down to -80% for a total of 3 points rather than the 5 I suggested. After all, Adam crumbles to dust when his power fails.

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Generic countermeasures or countermeasures that were specific to the individual?
Not sure. I got the impression that the cells would somewhat generic since they could just throw a meta in one.
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:29 PM   #45
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Default Re: Minor League Supers [Powers/Supers]

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
The source material doesn't say so, and plenty of counter evidence suggests that other supers (similar source?) were affected.
Can you provide examples of other people in heroes losing their abilities from technology?

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Lack of evidence isn't a fallacy; it's a reality.
The lack of evidence isn't the fallacy, your argument is the fallacy. Rules of logic place the burden (responsibility) of proving something on the person making the claim.

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
That's nice, but I don't own it and it seems to disagree with rules present in Campaigns which works for all genres. Perhaps fallout has specific rules for a specific situation.
Buy the book if you want to argue with it.

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I seem to recall regeneration increasing all recovery rates. Perhaps someone will search?
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...owth+crippling

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
It gives you many if not all the benefits of an indestructible skeleton. It's not just appearances.
Quote:
You can be crippled but your limbs
can’t be amputated and your eyes can’t be put out; crippling
injury leaves them in place, but nonfunctional.
You can still be crippled with No Visible Damage.
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Old 06-26-2019, 02:51 PM   #46
naloth
 
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Default Re: Minor League Supers [Powers/Supers]

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Can you provide examples of other people in heroes losing their abilities from technology?
There was a generic power dampener (portable) in the novels. I believe a larger version of it existed as cells in the series, but I'd have to go back and watch to confirm they negated powers rather than just trapped the inmates.

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The lack of evidence isn't the fallacy, your argument is the fallacy. Rules of logic place the burden (responsibility) of proving something on the person making the claim.
No, my argument is that if technology is shown to stop other supers, it could be part of the more generic modifier that also applies all metas shown including Claire.

Your argument is that the lack of a scene showing Claire's powers being stopped by technology means they cannot be. That lack of evidence could be an example of the fallacy you're citing.

In truth it's more of question of which way you feel ye olde monk's razor should cut.

Quote:
Buy the book if you want to argue with it.
Nah, I'll stick to the rules in Campaigns barring more information on the specifics of what seems like a genre ruling.

Interesting... I wonder if other threads expand or disagree with this.

-Temporary crippling injuries only last until you heal the injury (which regen does).
-Supernatural Durability seems to let you ignore them as long as you're at positive HP.

Quote:
You can still be crippled with No Visible Damage.
I didn't say otherwise. I was point it out as a precedent for saying "UK2 already effectively gives you most of the benefits of IT:Unbreakable Skeleton, so it's only a perk to extend those effects further in a minor way."

Unkillable would lets you heal after -HPx10, so with Regen secondly you're never more than a min or two from healing a lasting injury. With Regen 10/sec, it's even less time.

Another minor extension (Perk) might be that since you can recover from any lasting crippling injury in the amount of time it takes to heal -HPx10 damage, it's ok to recover in that same amount of time without actually self inflicting the damage (which isn't a big deal since characters could without consequences most of the time).
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Old 06-26-2019, 04:58 PM   #47
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Default Re: Minor League Supers [Powers/Supers]

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Nah, I'll stick to the rules in Campaigns barring more information on the specifics of what seems like a genre ruling.
It's not a genre ruling. Meltdown and fallout is basically GURPS Radiation
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Old 06-27-2019, 02:59 PM   #48
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Default Re: Minor League Supers [Powers/Supers]

Hey Dude/Hola Tipo

Hey Dude is a product of improper disposal of alchemical wastes in the dumps of El Paso/Juarez (in the GURPS Technomancer setting). They appear as a vaguely humanoid mass of writhing lizards, usually crammed into a full-length trenchcoat, a broad-brimmed hat, and a rubber Leonard Nimoy mask. They keep their hands in their pockets most of the time, since it's hard to hide that their fingers are geckos. Hey Dude learned both English and Spanish from a child's discarded tablet, which has an enchanted Eternalife™ battery. They are active in several online communities and use the tablet's text to speech function when they have to communicate in person. Hey Dude is upgraded to 250 points

ST: 8 [-20] DX:12 [40] IQ:12 [40] HT:11 [10]

Damage 1d-3/1d-2; BL 13 LB; HP 8; Will 12; Per 12; FP 11; Basic Speed 5.75
Basic Move 5

Acute Smell +1 [2]
360° vision [25]
Discriminatory Smell [15]
Doesn't Sleep [20]
Injury Tolerance: Diffuse (Swarm +0%, Scatter +40%, Tenuous-50%) [90]
Innate Attack 16 Cut [7]
AA: Sharp Claws [1]
Innate Attack 1d-2 (Toxic, Follow up (Claws/Innate attack) +0%, Side Effect (Agony) +150%) [10]
Speak with Lizards [10]
Signature Gear (Tablet) [1]
Regeneration: Fast (Only in environments with lizards -30%) [35]
Regrowth (Only in environments with lizards -30%) [28]
Hard to Kill 1 [2]
Hard to Subdue 3 [6]

Appearance: Monstrous [-20]
Bad Grip 2 [-10]
Cannot Speak (Mitigator: Tablet -60%) [-6]
Clueless [-10]
Cold-Blooded [-10]
Disturbing Voice [-10]
Dead Broke [-25]
Low Empathy [-20]



Quirks:

Brony [-1]
Eats with their hands (literally) [-1]
Dances to salsa music (It's terrifying to watch) [-1]

Skills:

Area Knowledge (The bad part of town) (E) IQ [1] - 12
Brawling (E) DX+1 [2] - 13
Computer Operation (E) IQ+1 [2] - 13
Games (Computer) (E) IQ [1] - 12
Hobby Skill (MLP lore) IQ (E) [1] - 12
Scrounging (E) Per+2 [4] - 14
Stealth (A) DX-1 [1] - 11
Survival (Urban) (A) Per+1 [4] - 13[/QUOTE]
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:36 AM   #49
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Default Re: Minor League Supers [Powers/Supers]

The Alibi

He's only a rumor - or rather a collection of rumors.

Have you ever wondered why so many super-criminals do not go to prison?

This is because they have unimpeachable alibis. They can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be in two places at once. This casts doubt on their guilt.

This because of the Alibi.

His powers include Compartmentalized Mind 1 [50 pts], Duplication 1 [35 pts], and Elastic Skin (Only with Duplication -10%) [18 pts]. He also has Acting Talent. ("He" is used because the Alibi's gender is unknown.)

The Alibi can generate another self, which can look like anyone and can operate independently. In fact, no one knows if anyone has ever met the real Alibi, including his oldest clients.

Any client of the Alibi can be assured that there will be eyewitnesses (and even photographic evidence) that can prove his innocence. In return, along with money and favors, the Alibi's clients don't talk about the Alibi.

But why am I talking about the Alibi? He's just a rumor ...
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:12 AM   #50
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Default Re: Minor League Supers [Powers/Supers]

Many of the Undersiders from Worm might fit into [250], at least near the start of their time with the Undersiders. Tattletale has some sort of extreme version of Common Sense + Danger Sense. Grue has some Linked Obscure effects, with very weak anti-super properties. Regent has something roughly akin to a Stunning Affliction, but since it lasts only a fraction of a second (he makes muscles spasm), he can typically only use it well in conjunction with a Wait. His Possession Advantage has some pretty heavy requirements to be used, so it would probably fit within the point budget. Bitch has a pretty hefty Beneficial Affliction, but it only works on dogs and doesn't give her any control over them, so I suspect she could fit there as well. Imp arguably has something like a Cosmic, self-only Obscure (she makes people forget she exists), which might fit within the budget.

Note aside from their powers none of the above characters would likely exceed [100]. Grue might, since he has fairly solid attributes and combat skills and isn't socially crippled, but I suspect he could be built under [100] without his powers.

Parian (high levels of TK, but limited to threads and stuffed animals made from said threads) and Foil (ETS and the ability to temporarily imbue any object with the ability to ignore barriers, powers, etc*) probably don't fit, but they were already fairly established capes when they joined the Undersiders. Skitter might have fit within [250] at the start, but I'd rather not make the mistake of underestimating her. That tends not to go well for people.

*Spoiler:
Spoiler:  
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