What's the talent to actually use a sword against Chain or Plate?

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

A fun topic!

I think you can't really get to a satisfying treatment of the armor-vs.-weapon-type arms race without a set of rules that is one big step more granular than TFT (i.e., GURPS). But below is a talent I wrote up many years ago that approaches half-swording (and other related skills) as a sort of advanced form of swordsmanship. It was written for my now-out-of-date house rules for the original TFT, but it isn't so terribly different from what one might create for the Legacy Edition. Some of what is written only makes sense in light of my house rules for parrying and multiple actions, but you can probably infer what I had in mind.

KUNST DES FECHTUNG (2): A set of advanced techniques for fighting with knightly weapons, including ‘half-swording’ (grasping a sword by the pommel and blade), and sophisticated blocks, binds and hacking and stabbing attacks. The character gains several advantages when fighting with any Great Sword, the War Sword, Arming Sword, Messer, Halberd, Bec de Corbin, Fighting Iron or Poniard. Each turn, he or she may pick one (and only one) of the following special abilities:

• Use any Great Sword, Arming Sword or Messer to deliver an attack in HTH combat.
• Deliver a ‘great blow’ on the same turn as performing one parry, second normal attack, or dodge. Otherwise, normal rules for multiple actions apply.
• Block with a great sword or qualifying pole arm, as if it were a 3-point shield, on the same turn as performing other attacks or parries with that same sword. The ‘block’ counts as an action in this case, and so multi-tasking penalty will apply to these other actions. This is an exception to the general rule that no weapon can be used for another purpose on a turn that it is used to block.
• Use your off-hand to perform punches or grabs on the same turn that the sword or pole arm is used two-handed for some other purpose. Normal ‘multi-tasking’ rules apply.
• Make a ‘Trip’ attack with a two-handed sword or pole arm—if it succeeds and is not parried, no damage is done but the foe must roll 4d vs. DX or fall to the ground.
• Use a Halberd or Bec de Corbin to engage foes 2 hexes away, provided the intervening hex is not blocked by another figure (friend or foe) or large obstruction. Foes engaged using this ability are treated as engaged in all respects (they can only shift one hex without changing distance from the character), and can be attacked normally. Importantly, the character is not treated as engaged when doing this (unless up against another fighter doing the same trick!). This can make it difficult for an opponent to close with you to attack with a shorter weapon.

Pre-requisites: SWORD, GREATSWORDS, POLEARMS, UNARMED COMBAT and DODGE talents. It is not possible to use the Fechtung talent when blinded, against invisible foes, or when suffering from a -4 or greater penalty to DX due to armor or encumbrance.

Looks interesting. I'm particularly interested in the stand-off engagement with polearms.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by hcobb

As we all know steel doesn't cut through steel, so what is the proper talent to use a sword as a club against a foe in metal armor?

My thoughts:

• When someone is buying/making armour they have to decide how thick the steel should be. They want it to be not too think so that it's unpleasantly heavy, but thick enough to stop the weapons they expect to face. This is a tradeoff, and the optimal choice is going to be "thick enough to be only penetrated in rare cases". So I would expect armour to occasionally get penetrated or bashed in or whatever.
• I imagine that a person who habitually wears plate armour would know how to penetrate it, probably by aiming for weak points. If your system has talents for armour then perhaps they should give bonuses for attacking someone in such armour.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

My thoughts:[LIST][*]When someone is buying/making armour they have to decide how thick the steel should be. They want it to be not too think so that it's unpleasantly heavy, but thick enough to stop the weapons they expect to face. This is a tradeoff, and the optimal choice is going to be "thick enough to be only penetrated in rare cases". So I would expect armour to occasionally get penetrated or bashed in or whatever.

There will be weapons on the battlefield capable of penetrating armour. That doesn't mean those weapons are swords.