Superior Contenders [Martial Arts]

[AlexanderHowl]

Let us imagine a NPC contender with ST 12, DX 12, IQ 10, HT 12, Combat Reflexes, High Pain Threshold, Luck, Style Familiarity (Boxing), Boxing-22, Boxing Sport-22, and Games (Boxing)-12. What level of wealth and fame would you expect such an individual to possess as a professional boxer? Would they be the Undisputed Champion of the world or would they not be good enough?

[scc]

According to the skill scales we've gotten someone with skills that good this is possibly the best boxer ever, but the problem is that the scales aren't very imaginative.

For an extreme example in DF it's possible for a wizard with a single point in a spell to have that spell at mid 50's level with +14 stat boosting items, and skills that good are useful in making stat boosting items that good because more wizards can work on an item.

So the question then boils down to: When does increased skill level become pointless? Basically you have to figure out what is the highest skill penalty that can be assessed. And this probably shouldn't be capped at ten, see here for an example: Link, yes these people are playing a video game blindfolded and they are winning it, and probably in a shorter time then most casual players could bet it.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by scc

According to the skill scales we've gotten someone with skills that good this is possibly the best boxer ever, but the problem is that the scales aren't very imaginative.

For an extreme example in DF it's possible for a wizard with a single point in a spell to have that spell at mid 50's level with +14 stat boosting items, and skills that good are useful in making stat boosting items that good because more wizards can work on an item.

So the question then boils down to: When does increased skill level become pointless? Basically you have to figure out what is the highest skill penalty that can be assessed. And this probably shouldn't be capped at ten

Skill Penalties (and Bonuses) aren't capped at 10 in GURPS, just most examples of skill penalties tend to cap out there, because they have to stop somewhere and -10 is usual enough.

Skill 16 vs Dodge 8 = chance to hit: 35040/46656 or 75.1%

Skill 24 vs Dodge 8 using deceptive attack to give Skill 16 vs Dodge 4 = chance to hit: 45024/46656 or 96.5%

Skill 30 vs Dodge 8 As above, but using rapid strike to attack twice.

Skill 40 vs Dodge 8 As above, but taking a -10 penalty to hit the eye twice through armour.

etc.

and if you're in the sort of game that allows skill 40, you might come across someone with Dodge 16, which gives

Skill 40 vs Dodge 16 using deceptive attack to give Skill 16 vs Dodge 4.

Higher skill might not always be the most efficient use of points, but until you get to insane levels, it almost always provides some benefit.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Let us imagine a NPC contender with ST 12,

What's his weight class? ST 12 is really good for a Flyweight (108–112 lbs), really poor for a Heavyweight (200+ lbs).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Let us imagine a NPC contender with ST 12, DX 12, IQ 10, HT 12, Combat Reflexes, High Pain Threshold, Luck, Style Familiarity (Boxing), Boxing-22, Boxing Sport-22, and Games (Boxing)-12. What level of wealth and fame would you expect such an individual to possess as a professional boxer?

Boxing has fallen a lot since Ali rated a +4 Reputation as "World's Most Famous athlete". Given that this might well be a welterweight champion that's probably no more than +1 or possibly a +2 with a very small group.

Wealth is much harder to assess especially when you have to find out how badly he's being swindled by his promoter.

Whether or not he's good enough is "eh". If I had Boxing-18 and TA/Boxing(Face) at max I would expect to land 10% of my punches on critical hits while I Parried 85% (Parry-13) of non-crit punches thrown at me. I actually expect this to be settled by crits (under standard Gurps rules).

Boxing-22 (with Enhanced Parry) is only raising my Parry from 13 to 15 but it is giving me a -2 to my opponent's Parry on Deceptive Attacks. That might take his Parry down from 13 to 11 and I still expect this to be settled on crits.

I think we might be ending up at "Gurps doesn't model Boxing matches very well". :)

[zoncxs]

This person would probably have average wealth. The better the fighter, the less likely they will be able to find someone willing to fight them. Not to mention this person have no reputation or an "manager" (Ally) to promote them. To make money in a sport, it does not matter how good you are, what matters is how you promote. Give him Charisma, Better appearance, Positive reputation, an Ally whose job is to promote him, Voice, etc. AND then you will have someone that can make money.

Basically a bard, make him into a bard.

[ericthered]

His ST is low, his HT is high, and his skill is absurd.



But his ST is high enough that you can actually do meaningful damage in gurps. I think it would really depend on if I was using roll with the blow in the campaign. That can really decrease the amount of damage dealt.



I suspect he'd be in the top 10 of most my campaigns though (Monster Hunters and ISWAT don't count).

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by ericthered

His ST is low,

For what weight class? It doesn't seem low for a Flyweight (108–112 lbs; 48.98 - 50.80 kg).

Originally Posted by ericthered

his HT is high,

How so?

Originally Posted by ericthered

and his skill is absurd.

A number of Who's Who characters had skills at 24.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

For what weight class? It doesn't seem low for a Flyweight (108–112 lbs; 48.98 - 50.80 kg).

The question is "Best in the world". For me, that means heavyweight. Yes, the smaller guys are skilled, and they can be more entertaining to watch (or so I'm told), but if you won't fight the big guys, are you really the best in the world?

How so?

12 is a high HT. I usually don't see HT go above 14, and you can get some absurd simulationist results with high HT. It is worth saying that his HT is probably not high for a champion boxer. It is a nice solid useful score though. He's probably not the top number in the ring though.

A number of Who's Who characters had skills at 24.

I don't own the book, its 3e, and I suspect those characters are historical champions, not world champions. Also, those people have absurdly high skills levels. That's kind of the point.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by ericthered

The question is "Best in the world". For me, that means heavyweight. Yes, the smaller guys are skilled, and they can be more entertaining to watch (or so I'm told), but if you won't fight the big guys, are you really the best in the world?

Fair point. ST 12 won't cut it for Tyson Fury (6'9" 254lbs).

Originally Posted by ericthered

12 is a high HT. I usually don't see HT go above 14, and you can get some absurd simulationist results with high HT. It is worth saying that his HT is probably not high for a champion boxer. It is a nice solid useful score though. He's probably not the top number in the ring though.

For a Champion boxer I'd probably be thinking of HT 13, Very Fit, Very Rapid Healing*, High Pain Threshold and Hard to subdue +2.

*Training injuries can end a career without even stepping in the ring.