06-16-2019, 08:00 PM | #31 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }
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I can't even figure out a way to rule out something like "Gadget: The Earth" However if it did grant Flight, odds are you won't have the Lifting ST to take the Piano along for the ride with you so an ability to make the piano weigh less would be a good compliment. |
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06-16-2019, 11:03 PM | #32 | |
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
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Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }
Meaningless? I'm pretty sure my grammar was sound, and quite certain the words used are all fairly well known. Perhaps the deficit is at your end. I don't now what kind of back up you think would be required.
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In the absence of a GM ruling, putting gadget modifiers on an Advantage doesn't somehow make that advantage into a particular thing that grants extraneous in-game capabilities. You can't just say "I have a magic gem that grants Infravision but also btw it's the largest diamond in the world and worth half-a-billion dollars." In this case, look at what Enhanced Defenses (Block) says: "Enhanced Block: You have +1 to your Block score with either Cloak or Shield skill. You must specialize in one particular Block defense. 5 points." It doesn't say you get to have a Block manouever without having a Cloak or Shield. Compare two builds: 1. Enhanced Defense (Block) (5) (Modifier: Can be Stolen (Contest of ST) -30%) [4] 2. Enhanced Defense (Block) (5) (Modifier: Can be Stolen (Contest of ST) -30%) [4] Which one of those items is a shield (which would make a Block possible), and which one other is a feather (which means you would not get a Block)? Last edited by Donny Brook; 06-16-2019 at 11:23 PM. |
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06-16-2019, 11:55 PM | #33 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }
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Now the Shield box on p. 78 counts DB as the full set of Enhanced Defenses not free. So IMO it could go either way, pay points or no DB or purchase a shield with cash and use its natural DB plus whatever powers are added. I think most players would object to the latter since it means their characters have to pay points a mundane can get for mere money.
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06-17-2019, 07:52 AM | #34 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }
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Doing the piano bench would be a routine variant of the Flying Carpet Spell.
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Fred Brackin |
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06-17-2019, 07:58 AM | #35 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }
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Also, a GM can rule that anything is inappropriate for a given campaign. Planet sized gadgets don't fit many character concepts. |
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06-17-2019, 08:03 AM | #36 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }
There it is, that's the meaningless part.
I've never been entranced with the "Death of the GM" side in the "Rules vs GM" debate. You aren't going to be playing a Character in one of my games until I've ruled on it, so "absence of a GM ruling" is rather meaningless. Quote:
And I don't think other GMs should care either, which Is why I'm in here argue that side of it. If possessing "the largest diamond in the world and worth half-a-billion dollars" will bring your Character some extra abilities, then they must be paid for. If it's only going to bring you trouble (from thieves), then it wouldn't require additional statistics. I'm always okay with PCs taking Disads for free (however I would mention to them that it might be a bit less expensive if high profile thieves are always after it, and they would be, and thus they might want to consider taking Disads X, Y, or Z on that Gadget). Quote:
And what are their SM and Breakability Limitations? |
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06-17-2019, 08:32 AM | #37 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
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Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }
Different GMs may have different approaches. I am talking about what the rules provide.
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The build under discussion here either enables (says you as GM) or doesn't enable (says me) a character to do something the rules say cannot be done without at least one of two specific objects, a cloak or a shield. But the build doesn't provide either object, and that's what I'm pointing out. Quote:
Consider another example: A character whose racial template includes Blind [-50]. Just taking Acute Senses (Vision) [2] doesn't mean they can now see, and adding a gadget limitation to that doesn't in and of itself let them declare the gadget is a working set of bionic eyes. Last edited by Donny Brook; 06-17-2019 at 08:37 AM. |
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06-17-2019, 03:29 PM | #38 | |||||
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }
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I think maybe to define differences between the value of gadgets that do stuff is to have people buy the baseline nature of their gadgets either using their wealth or as Signature Gear. One thing the stands out about "can be stolen" and "unique" is replaceability... "Normally, you can replace a broken or stolen gadget" if you don't take that, for example. That would be the balancing factor. If you decide to define your gadget as high-value (like your adamantium speedboat which happens to give you Mana Enhancer) then in addition to paying for it upfront and having a breakability-but-really-hard-to-break thing to hide behind, if someone does manage to steal it or destroy it, it would be all the more expense to replace. Quote:
My idea wasn't new :( Quote:
Paragraph 5 mentions using "Accessibility: requires material components" when it's trivial to replace the base item, so that would be like "I'm +1 to all active defenses so long as I have a shield, any old shield will do" I think? Enhanced Block 1 (Requires Material Components -10%) [5] isn't a discount but it does reduced Enhanced Block 2 to [9] and probably covers the "I'm really good at blocking, but only with this particular kind of shield" guy, who would be out of luck using a block with other kinds of shields (or cloaks). An expanded range of a shield catching the hit on a narrowly-passed defense (like with shields when the DB makes the diff) if your "Enhanced Defenses" contributes to that, might be a 0-point feature since it has benefits (free contact on enemy with your shield, which can be useful) and drawbacks (possible damage to your shield). Or maybe an enhancement or limitation? What I don't like about the static -10 is that it doesn't seem to reflect the cost/difficulty of replacement, and seems to bypass the Gadget Limitations. Maybe "requires material components" should be a prerequisite for Gadget Limitations and then you take those on top of it to denote the difficulty of replacing? Maybe in various levels until reaching the -25% for Unique (never) ? Quote:
1/20 of starting wealth for the campaign TL" but I think the "pay cash for the base" approach sounds better. "a hero with bioelectric powers who used a metal sword to extend his reach" sounds challenging to do... I can't remember if there's a way to design Innate Attacks as Followup attacks on melee weapons. Quote:
The feather will be cheaper to buy with Wealth/Signature Gear and be lighter to carry around, but the Shield will give an inherent defense bonus like any shield normally does, and can be strapped to the arm. Generally when you buy gear (either wealth or signature) it has inherent stats like HP/DR though, and that's where I'm lost: if you're already paying fewer points because you bought an easily-destroyed item, should you also pay fewer points for it being an easier destroyed gadget? Worried that's double-dipping. |
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06-17-2019, 08:15 PM | #39 | |||||||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }
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At the end of the day it's all Rule Zero. Quote:
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That's a really tiny shield. Quote:
The description is what makes one a shield and the other a feather. I've now said 'description' in three posts, so by the Rule of Three this is now funny, satisfying, or effective. Quote:
So what do you demand be added to a Gadget to make it a Shield or a piano or a feather? |
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06-17-2019, 11:00 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
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Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }
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